Beware Lancaster Fancy Fowl

[blondi61189]

Would just like to give everyone my experience with this breeder. I bought some chicks back in June, met John and toured the facility where he keeps his birds. Everything is clean and organized and all the birds appear very healthy and he is very nice. When I got home placed chicks in brooder and within 24hrs spotted bloody stool....started them on corrid but unfortunately lost several chicks..but John was very nice about it, commenting that perhaps the stress of the ride brought out the cocci and offering to replace. So while I heartily recommend this breeder...you may want to start you chicks/poults fowl on corrid or medicated starter just incase

 

[John 4 Jesus]

Hi there Danielle 3507,
As the owner of LFF, I would like to take the opportunity to respond to your post. First, when we discovered your problem with cocci and chicken lice, we apologized for the issues you were having and explained that our facilities are not 100% "critter" proof. Raising poultry in a chicken house or barn and giving them access to pasture/dirt is not like raising them in a sterile house environment. As a result, we have to raise our chicks, juveniles, and adults on quality bedding to minimize the problems associated with mites and fleas which are natural environmental parasites that exist everywhere. To eliminate this problem entirely is virtually impossible and so we try our best to work with what we have.

The same goes for cocci. It is a natural dust borne microscopic parasite that is in the air and unavoidable. Hence our chicks are fed an amprol medicated feed till the age of 10 weeks, at which point they become naturally resistant to it.

From what I recall, you never made any attempt to contact us directly for help or advice on your problems. Instead, you hopped on our FB page and wrote a scathingly negative review about our hatchery. I removed it because I didn't believe it was a legitimate complaint/accusation and did not accurately represent the time, care, and money we put into our birds to ensure our customers receive the healthiest birds possible. Later, after contacting you myself, I explained to you that cocci flare ups are most common when chicks are moved from one environment to another and undergo a period of stressful transition, this is especially true for mail ordered or shipped chicks. (BTW, Goats are notorious for having this problem as well.) For this reason we provide the following clause in our online health guarantee: ".....Since juvenile and day-old poultry are especially sensitive to soil parasites and coccidiosis (environmentally transmitted microscopic organisms), the customer must provide a coccidiostat in the form of medicated feed or water upon the bird’s arrival, and when putting the birds to pasture for the first time, provide a poultry wormer to safeguard against soil parasites. If such measures are not followed, the health guarantee is void."

The bald spot you mentioned your bird having is due to juveniles pecking each other periodically throughout the growth process and we notify our customers of this problem in our policy, which they are responsible for reading prior to purchase: "Please understand that our juveniles are floor raised with hundreds of others in relatively close proximity. We do not debeak or heat trim the beaks of our chicks or juveniles in any way. As a result, juveniles are prone to pluck each other’s feathers at times and may appear somewhat scruffy or have mild bare spots when initially purchased. The scruffy, somewhat feather pecked appearance is nothing to worry about and disappears almost immediately when the birds are given sufficient space and time in a less competitive environment."

If you had contacted us to notify us that your birds were dying due to severe cocci and lice infestation or the bald spot you mentioned posed a life threatening risk, I would have been happy to replace your birds or offer you a full refund, but to just defame us because you are unhappy about your discovery of chicken lice and cocci is not going to remedy your problems. However, in a private email, we did provide helpful suggestions for how you could combat the problems of lice and cocci, which is the best I could offer as the seller of your birds. If you are unhappy with this, I apologize and don't know what else to say.

I'm saddened to hear that we are now being accused of selling you a bird with CRD (chronic respiratory disease) and you cite the fact that we sell a tonic to cure URI (upper respiratory infection) associated problems in poultry as proof that our birds are sold sick to our customers. I think it is a mistake to arrive at such far-fetched conclusions without any proof to back up your statements. We started HCT out of a desire to offer a natural alternative to commercial antibiotics. We get calls routinely from poultry holders throughout the US who are searching for advice on how to cure their chicken's IB, NC, MG, IC, etc and want to know what we offer our birds to keep them healthy. Since our customers are aware we are a naturally inclined and organically fed operation, they want to know if we have any advice on alternatives to conventional antibiotics. We did not have any dynamic options to offer until we ran into a desperate situation almost a year ago while we were expanding our flocks in preparation for moving into our new chicken house at our current Leola location. We bought hundreds of exotic birds from well known and highly credentialled breeders throughout the US--breeders that have a reputation for breeding show quality birds and offering imported bloodlines. They (these breeders) have also been tested clean for Typhoid, Polorum, Avian Influenza, Salmonella, and E-Coli by the NPIP with papers to prove it. However, sad to say, allot of these birds were infected with acute cases of URI---not in the NPIP screening process---and after we learned of it, we immediately quarantined and treated them. As back up, we had 3 separate locations (miles apart) to house our birds and took the utmost precautions necessary to ensure the birds we sell are in good health. Also, we have a rigorous prescreening process birds undergo prior to when we sell them. We did not want to use conventional antibiotics as we are predisposed against the health risks/side effects associated with them. After contacting an herbal formulator in Ohio with a reputation of successfully treating all kinds of animals naturally, including puppies, we came up with an all natural, organically based, high potency formula to cure the birds that were infected, and praise God, it worked marvelously and now we use it exclusively with our birds as a seasonal fowl conditioner and also have tested it with our chicks as a possible alternative to amprolium medication. So far we are persuaded it is a viable and working alternative.

What you must understand is that I don't accuse these breeders for selling us sick birds, even though they charged us a small fortune for these rare and endangered breeds. Why do I say this? Because I know how prevalent and unavoidable airborne viruses can be especially during a cold winter. Not to mention that URI is currently at an all time high nationwide on account of the rise in people now tending backyard flocks. Also, the state of Texas is currently facing a severe crisis with IB and MG. Recently in Washington they had to commit several hundred birds due to the big virus problem.

Since we launched HCT (Happy Chicken Tonic) we are overwhelmed by the amount of requests we receive on a daily basis from customers who are looking for help with their poultry URI. From as far up the East Coast as New Hampshire, we are receiving requests to ship the tonic asap. Just recently we had one of the biggest chicken bloggers in America with a FB audience of 400K and with 10,000 blog visitors daily, asking us to ship them the tonic as these problems currently persist and are growing. So to pin us down for your birds contracting an airborne virus at a time when it is a national epidemic is to me a bit outrageous. Especially since you can't provide a clear connection to us and you mention this months after acquiring our birds.

If any have doubts about the health and maintenance of our flocks, all they need do is come out to our Leola hatchery location and take a tour of our main house and brooding facility to verify the rearing conditions and the health of our birds. We do have bio-security measures in place and guidelines our customers must observe when coming to our farm, but otherwise, we give them a first hand and reasonably close up introduction to our operation.

Daniele, let me humbly suggest you do your homework on poultry problems and risks prior to purchasing birds from breeders and leveling impossible expectations on folks who are doing everything possible to sell healthy and viable birds to their customers.
God bless you!
John A.

 

[dfalchek]

I'm making my first pick-up from LFF next month. So far, I have found John and the team responsive and helpful. But I will post a review of my experience. If a chick got sick, and the vendor took care of it. I don't understand the problem... What does one needs to "beware" of? Beware of vendors standing by their product? Beware of vendors trying to make things right? Seems like a case of someone trying to Internet shame a vendor for a common problem often beyond anyone's control.

 

[sagealbright]

We live close to John and have gotten all of our chickens from him. He's always been so helpful and even went as far as to come out to our house and inspect our birds when we had a few catch IB. He was very helpful and told us everything we needed to do to get them healthy and keep them that way. When one of my birds was dying I took it over to him and he showed me how to inject the Tylan and tried to tube feed the bird. However, she was too weak to be tube fed and passed out. He gave my bird a form of MOUTH TO MOUTH. That's dedication right there. He also took one of our roosters that started getting out of control to green dragon for us to find it a new home. I know that whenever anything comes up or we have any questions he will do all that he can to help. I recommend him 100% to anyone!

Danielle,
I would be upset to lose birds and have a sick flock as well but I can't help but think that you didn't take the proper precautions when you first got the birds. The first thing we always do it spray for mites/lice the day we get them. We keep them quarantined for weeks. Also, were you watching for signs that your bird was sick? There are ways to tell that your bird is not feeling well before it is too late. In the time you had the bird you had plenty of time to look every day for symptoms. I check my flock every day and inspect them to look for signs of illness. At the first sign of a bird not feeling good I try to figure out what it is, treat it, and if that doesn't work, ask John for advice. I believe your actions of going and writing a bad review about a great company are childish. If you had a personal bad experience that's fine, you don't have to get your birds from him anymore. To go onto Facebook and write a bad review is something a 15 year old girl would do. You're better than that. You don't have a reason to be mad at him. You should be mad at yourself for not taking proper precautions and catching the illness of your bird in time.

John and all of Lancaster Fancy Fowl is a great business to buy poultry from and his Happy Chicken Tonic is wonderful. His birds are gorgeous. Don't let others who had once bad experience deter you from purchasing birds from him.

 

[AtlantisPeeps]

Saw this and wanted to share my experience with LFF. I ordered 5 chicks from them, but had to change some of the breeds because they didn't have what I wanted (which was not stated on their web) it took 2 months to get my chicks, even though the man said it would only take 2 weeks. When they came, I got 4 infants and one pullet, even though I ordered all pullets. They all had mites. One died within 2 days. They sent a replacement, which died as well. Another ended up being a roo. Which has also recently died. One of the "survivors" had MG and lost an eye. The other healthy one has a crooked toe birth defect.

I will never order from them again. Disaster and waste of $150.

 

[enola]

By the way Free Feather where DID you get your chickens ?

 

[fruitionfarmcsa]

Ok people. It seems trivial to do so but if you don't follow up on this he will never stop.
This is fraud. It is also going on over state lines. If anyone mailed there $ and got a written response then that may be mail fraud. Start calling the sheriff. This is a police matter. Fraud is not a civil issue it is criminal. Due to the fact that he is advertising out of state it could be federal. Get the address call the police station. Ask for the sheriff directly. If he is busy leave a message.( Picture the sheriff coming back from lunch to a stack of out of state complaints)Next call the clerk of the small claims court. Ask for the form to file a civil small claim. One of you hopefully lives in pa. Get together and have that person issue personal service at the farm. (If not pay the 40 bucks for a process server the Marshall at the same court you'll File at can do it I bet if you all send together they will give a deal your now buying piece of mind )separate claims will have greater impact but each one will need personal service in pa. Listen if all of u call the clerk of the court and the sheriff they will all be talking. That many cases and complaints will warrant activity. Don't just let this go. He deserves to get a Detroit beat down but that's against the law so don't do it you'll get In trouble, but wait why is he allowed to damage you. but if you seek retribution you'll be in jail while he counts your money. So metaphorically beat him down in court. There is a real disease called trial fatigue. Make him suffer.

 

[ageewax]

Sidenote and completely unrelated. Whenever LFF decides to get Midget White Turkeys, I'll be buying one!

 

[John 4 Jesus]

Hi there Danielle 3507,
As the owner of LFF, I would like to take the opportunity to respond to your post. First, when we discovered your problem with cocci and chicken lice, we apologized for the issues you were having and explained that our facilities are not 100% "critter" proof. Raising poultry in a chicken house or barn and giving them access to pasture/dirt is not like raising them in a sterile house environment. As a result, we have to raise our chicks, juveniles, and adults on quality bedding to minimize the problems associated with mites and fleas which are natural environmental parasites that exist everywhere. To eliminate this problem entirely is virtually impossible and so we try our best to work with what we have.

The same goes for cocci. It is a natural dust borne microscopic parasite that is in the air and unavoidable. Hence our chicks are fed an amprol medicated feed till the age of 10 weeks, at which point they become naturally resistant to it.

From what I recall, you never made any attempt to contact us directly for help or advice on your problems. Instead, you hopped on our FB page and wrote a scathingly negative review about our hatchery. I removed it because I didn't believe it was a legitimate complaint/accusation and did not accurately represent the time, care, and money we put into our birds to ensure our customers receive the healthiest birds possible. Later, after contacting you myself, I explained to you that cocci flare ups are most common when chicks are moved from one environment to another and undergo a period of stressful transition, this is especially true for mail ordered or shipped chicks. (BTW, Goats are notorious for having this problem as well.) For this reason we provide the following clause in our online health guarantee: ".....Since juvenile and day-old poultry are especially sensitive to soil parasites and coccidiosis (environmentally transmitted microscopic organisms), the customer must provide a coccidiostat in the form of medicated feed or water upon the bird’s arrival, and when putting the birds to pasture for the first time, provide a poultry wormer to safeguard against soil parasites. If such measures are not followed, the health guarantee is void."

The bald spot you mentioned your bird having is due to juveniles pecking each other periodically throughout the growth process and we notify our customers of this problem in our policy, which they are responsible for reading prior to purchase: "Please understand that our juveniles are floor raised with hundreds of others in relatively close proximity. We do not debeak or heat trim the beaks of our chicks or juveniles in any way. As a result, juveniles are prone to pluck each other’s feathers at times and may appear somewhat scruffy or have mild bare spots when initially purchased. The scruffy, somewhat feather pecked appearance is nothing to worry about and disappears almost immediately when the birds are given sufficient space and time in a less competitive environment."

If you had contacted us to notify us that your birds were dying due to severe cocci and lice infestation or the bald spot you mentioned posed a life threatening risk, I would have been happy to replace your birds or offer you a full refund, but to just defame us because you are unhappy about your discovery of chicken lice and cocci is not going to remedy your problems. However, in a private email, we did provide helpful suggestions for how you could combat the problems of lice and cocci, which is the best I could offer as the seller of your birds. If you are unhappy with this, I apologize and don't know what else to say.

I'm saddened to hear that we are now being accused of selling you a bird with CRD (chronic respiratory disease) and you cite the fact that we sell a tonic to cure URI (upper respiratory infection) associated problems in poultry as proof that our birds are sold sick to our customers. I think it is a mistake to arrive at such far-fetched conclusions without any proof to back up your statements. We started HCT out of a desire to offer a natural alternative to commercial antibiotics. We get calls routinely from poultry holders throughout the US who are searching for advice on how to cure their chicken's IB, NC, MG, IC, etc and want to know what we offer our birds to keep them healthy. Since our customers are aware we are a naturally inclined and organically fed operation, they want to know if we have any advice on alternatives to conventional antibiotics. We did not have any dynamic options to offer until we ran into a desperate situation almost a year ago while we were expanding our flocks in preparation for moving into our new chicken house at our current Leola location. We bought hundreds of exotic birds from well known and highly credentialled breeders throughout the US--breeders that have a reputation for breeding show quality birds and offering imported bloodlines. They (these breeders) have also been tested clean for Typhoid, Polorum, Avian Influenza, Salmonella, and E-Coli by the NPIP with papers to prove it. However, sad to say, allot of these birds were infected with acute cases of URI---not in the NPIP screening process---and after we learned of it, we immediately quarantined and treated them. As back up, we had 3 separate locations (miles apart) to house our birds and took the utmost precautions necessary to ensure the birds we sell are in good health. Also, we have a rigorous prescreening process birds undergo prior to when we sell them. We did not want to use conventional antibiotics as we are predisposed against the health risks/side effects associated with them. After contacting an herbal formulator in Ohio with a reputation of successfully treating all kinds of animals naturally, including puppies, we came up with an all natural, organically based, high potency formula to cure the birds that were infected, and praise God, it worked marvelously and now we use it exclusively with our birds as a seasonal fowl conditioner and also have tested it with our chicks as a possible alternative to amprolium medication. So far we are persuaded it is a viable and working alternative.

What you must understand is that I don't accuse these breeders for selling us sick birds, even though they charged us a small fortune for these rare and endangered breeds. Why do I say this? Because I know how prevalent and unavoidable airborne viruses can be especially during a cold winter. Not to mention that URI is currently at an all time high nationwide on account of the rise in people now tending backyard flocks. Also, the state of Texas is currently facing a severe crisis with IB and MG. Recently in Washington they had to commit several hundred birds due to the big virus problem.

Since we launched HCT (Happy Chicken Tonic) we are overwhelmed by the amount of requests we receive on a daily basis from customers who are looking for help with their poultry URI. From as far up the East Coast as New Hampshire, we are receiving requests to ship the tonic asap. Just recently we had one of the biggest chicken bloggers in America with a FB audience of 400K and with 10,000 blog visitors daily, asking us to ship them the tonic as these problems currently persist and are growing. So to pin us down for your birds contracting an airborne virus at a time when it is a national epidemic is to me a bit outrageous. Especially since you can't provide a clear connection to us and you mention this months after acquiring our birds.

If any have doubts about the health and maintenance of our flocks, all they need do is come out to our Leola hatchery location and take a tour of our main house and brooding facility to verify the rearing conditions and the health of our birds. We do have bio-security measures in place and guidelines our customers must observe when coming to our farm, but otherwise, we give them a first hand and reasonably close up introduction to our operation.

Daniele, let me humbly suggest you do your homework on poultry problems and risks prior to purchasing birds from breeders and leveling impossible expectations on folks who are doing everything possible to sell healthy and viable birds to their customers.
God bless you!
John A.

 

[ageewax]

Given that respiratory infections have an incubation period of one to two weeks, I find it hard to believe that you could purchase chickens in December and then have them die of an illness they had all along in February.