Black crested White Polish

[JacinLarkwell]

I love crests on chickens but not to the detriment of the bird.

Sorry been keeping theses things in for a while. Every time I think I want to show and I do my research, I come up not wanting to. Happens with dogs, horses, cats, and now chickens.

Lol, I end up pulling at my hair and stepping away.

Anyway sorry again. I get badgered by the "SOP is the only way" crowded and it bubbles up unexpectedly .

Love this project so much. I hope I can put everything I have into my own as well.

I think the SOP is like a recipe blog. Good guidelines and some things are needed for the end product, but some things can be altered a bit with no ill effect

 

[I Like Turkeys]

The vault issue was another reason I went with Spitzhauben over polish.

I'm really getting to the point of going by my own rules and forming my own SOP. I'll breed to that and it won't allow for things that inhibit the health and well-being of the chicken.

Kinda tired of the SOP breeders stating you'll get the healthiest chickens by going by the book. Then they add things to the book that is not healthy for the chicken.

I can understand the crests. Those are easly cared for but the vaults that are a serious detriment to the breed I do not understand.

I may have polish eventually and breed away from the vaults.

That's an understandable approach when you want birds who don’t struggle. The vaults are something I feel weird about breeding, as sometimes vaulted birds will struggle in mixed flocks. Healthy chickens, who've got no survival issues, are pretty important to me.

Vaults, and sometimes crest size, do eat into a bird’s ability to survive. I get they’ll never be free-ranger animals, but so long as a crested bird can keep up with and hold their own against non-crested breeds, I’ll feel comfortable with their health and survivability. I’ve owned a few crested birds who’ve been integrated in and out of my layer flock(filled with non-crested bullies ). Some have fared well(my 3 mottled houdan hens who beat up pullets for fun), others haven’t(My WCB rooster who has to be separated for his own well-being, and the first ever polish I bought 2 yrs ago who died after being integrated into the flock). I had my current breeding cockerel with that layer flock previously, and aside from being a bit of an outcast when he was first introduced, he did fine. Fared better there than with his own hatchmate cockerels. I’ve got my two spare boys in with the flock right now as well, and they’re doing fine.

I've heard it be said before that polish will often have harder skulls than breeds like Silkies, which only recently had vaults bred in and thus commonly have completely open vaults, but judging by the parent stock I started with, I doubt that'll be the case for my birds.
The Ideal birds completely lacked vaults or were minimally vaulted. It just seems unreasonable to expect chicks with stronger vaults from a single generation of breeding, especially from birds who lack the trait. I have some worries about the longevity of the one larger-vaulted chick I hatched because of this, and these worries make pursuing vaults sound unpleasant, although the standard deliberating calls for them.
It’s something I debate with myself.

I love crests on chickens but not to the detriment of the bird.

Sorry been keeping theses things in for a while. Every time I think I want to show and I do my research, I come up not wanting to. Happens with dogs, horses, cats, and now chickens.

Lol, I end up pulling at my hair and stepping away.

Anyway sorry again. I get badgered by the "SOP is the only way" crowded and it bubbles up unexpectedly .

Love this project so much. I hope I can put everything I have into my own as well.

It’s alright. I love my crested birds, but when they cannot properly care for themselves or protect themselves, it becomes sad to have to keep them separate for safety. I much prefer crested birds who can still function normally and survive- even thrive- amongst non-crested birds. Looking beautiful shouldn’t come with a failure to survive, or detriments that make keeping birds alive and healthy difficult.

the BCW sort of impressed me in that manner of being healthy. I’ve heard so many horror stories about BCW falling over dead over nothing. I lost 8 BCW chicks from the first order, due to the cold weather when I got them. They’ve been hardy birds so far. I don’t think that correlates to the standard, but they really surprised me with not being sickly, quick-to-die birds.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

That's an understandable approach when you want birds who don’t struggle. The vaults are something I feel weird about breeding, as sometimes vaulted birds will struggle in mixed flocks. Healthy chickens, who've got no survival issues, are pretty important to me.

Vaults, and sometimes crest size, do eat into a bird’s ability to survive. I get they’ll never be free-ranger animals, but so long as a crested bird can keep up with and hold their own against non-crested breeds, I’ll feel comfortable with their health and survivability. I’ve owned a few crested birds who’ve been integrated in and out of my layer flock(filled with non-crested bullies ). Some have fared well(my 3 mottled houdan hens who beat up pullets for fun), others haven’t(My WCB rooster who has to be separated for his own well-being, and the first ever polish I bought 2 yrs ago who died after being integrated into the flock). I had my current breeding cockerel with that layer flock previously, and aside from being a bit of an outcast when he was first introduced, he did fine. Fared better there than with his own hatchmate cockerels. I’ve got my two spare boys in with the flock right now as well, and they’re doing fine.

I've heard it be said before that polish will often have harder skulls than breeds like Silkies, which only recently had vaults bred in and thus commonly have completely open vaults, but judging by the parent stock I started with, I doubt that'll be the case for my birds.
The Ideal birds completely lacked vaults or were minimally vaulted. It just seems unreasonable to expect chicks with stronger vaults from a single generation of breeding, especially from birds who lack the trait. I have some worries about the longevity of the one larger-vaulted chick I hatched because of this, and these worries make pursuing vaults sound unpleasant, although the standard deliberating calls for them.
It’s something I debate with myself.


It’s alright. I love my crested birds, but when they cannot properly care for themselves or protect themselves, it becomes sad to have to keep them separate for safety. I much prefer crested birds who can still function normally and survive- even thrive- amongst non-crested birds. Looking beautiful shouldn’t come with a failure to survive, or detriments that make keeping birds alive and healthy difficult.

the BCW sort of impressed me in that manner of being healthy. I’ve heard so many horror stories about BCW falling over dead over nothing. I lost 8 BCW chicks from the first order, due to the cold weather when I got them. They’ve been hardy birds so far. I don’t think that correlates to the standard, but they really surprised me with not being sickly, quick-to-die birds.

My 4 I had all did great too. They had no issues apart from one just getting stuck on our deck randomly.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

My 4 I had all did great too. They had no issues apart from one just getting stuck on our deck randomly.

Ironic(but lucky) that neither of us had serious vitality issues. One of the biggest complaints breeders on FB have is the vitality/vigor/survivability of BCW. I've seen a lot of complaints on that, and how easily BCW die. Lots of complaints of death. When I got into them, I was expecting a lot worse than what I got.

FB was right about the roosters being something else though, I've found. Even the girls have their feisty moments. Breeder cockerel hates me too now since I split pens to keep track of which pullet lays which eggs, and all the other boys have their snippy moments. Breeder cockerel was the sweetest boy I had just a month ago.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Ironic(but lucky) that neither of us had serious vitality issues. One of the biggest complaints breeders on FB have is the vitality/vigor/survivability of BCW. I've seen a lot of complaints on that, and how easily BCW die. Lots of complaints of death. When I got into them, I was expecting a lot worse than what I got.

FB was right about the roosters being something else though, I've found. Even the girls have their feisty moments. Breeder cockerel hates me too now since I split pens to keep track of which pullet lays which eggs, and all the other boys have their snippy moments. Breeder cockerel was the sweetest boy I had just a month ago.

Really? Mine was awful sweet, but the dumbest of the polish, excluding my actually brain damaged buff lace. I did have a hen though that constantly pecked. Nor grabbing, but like she was using echolocation woth her beak

 

[ElPaso]

Ironic(but lucky) that neither of us had serious vitality issues. One of the biggest complaints breeders on FB have is the vitality/vigor/survivability of BCW. I've seen a lot of complaints on that, and how easily BCW die. Lots of complaints of death. When I got into them, I was expecting a lot worse than what I got.

FB was right about the roosters being something else though, I've found. Even the girls have their feisty moments. Breeder cockerel hates me too now since I split pens to keep track of which pullet lays which eggs, and all the other boys have their snippy moments. Breeder cockerel was the sweetest boy I had just a month ago.

It is so sad this variety has not been improved in the 30 years they have been bred in US.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Really? Mine was awful sweet, but the dumbest of the polish, excluding my actually brain damaged buff lace. I did have a hen though that constantly pecked. Nor grabbing, but like she was using echolocation woth her beak

Yes, unfortunately. He's been getting feistier as the pullets go into lay. He doesn't seem to appreciate me intruding on his space or messing with them. I've been trying to give him snacks and calm him down. I'm hoping he calms down with age, but who knows. One of my spares is snippy, always trying to intimidate me or dancing right up beside me. The third cockerel I've kept minds his own business, aside from when I have food. He's just skittish, I've found, so may never work up that nerve to go after me, but until he gets isolated with pullets, who knows how he'll decide to act.

It is so sad this variety has not been improved in the 30 years they have been bred in US.

It is. They seem to have gotten worse, instead of stagnating or improving. Ideal's stock definitely kept getting worse, and they were the main place to get BCW for a while. A lot of people with promising stock have also given up breeding them. I've seen photos of the McKinney & Govero Poultry birds before they stopped breeding them, and their birds were better than what you could've gotten at Ideal. I know of a few others who've discontinued breeding them as well. Widespread improvement of the variety will take a long time.

 

[NagemTX]

That's an understandable approach when you want birds who don’t struggle. The vaults are something I feel weird about breeding, as sometimes vaulted birds will struggle in mixed flocks. Healthy chickens, who've got no survival issues, are pretty important to me.

Vaults, and sometimes crest size, do eat into a bird’s ability to survive. I get they’ll never be free-ranger animals, but so long as a crested bird can keep up with and hold their own against non-crested breeds, I’ll feel comfortable with their health and survivability. I’ve owned a few crested birds who’ve been integrated in and out of my layer flock(filled with non-crested bullies ). Some have fared well(my 3 mottled houdan hens who beat up pullets for fun), others haven’t(My WCB rooster who has to be separated for his own well-being, and the first ever polish I bought 2 yrs ago who died after being integrated into the flock). I had my current breeding cockerel with that layer flock previously, and aside from being a bit of an outcast when he was first introduced, he did fine. Fared better there than with his own hatchmate cockerels. I’ve got my two spare boys in with the flock right now as well, and they’re doing fine.

I've heard it be said before that polish will often have harder skulls than breeds like Silkies, which only recently had vaults bred in and thus commonly have completely open vaults, but judging by the parent stock I started with, I doubt that'll be the case for my birds.
The Ideal birds completely lacked vaults or were minimally vaulted. It just seems unreasonable to expect chicks with stronger vaults from a single generation of breeding, especially from birds who lack the trait. I have some worries about the longevity of the one larger-vaulted chick I hatched because of this, and these worries make pursuing vaults sound unpleasant, although the standard deliberating calls for them.
It’s something I debate with myself.


It’s alright. I love my crested birds, but when they cannot properly care for themselves or protect themselves, it becomes sad to have to keep them separate for safety. I much prefer crested birds who can still function normally and survive- even thrive- amongst non-crested birds. Looking beautiful shouldn’t come with a failure to survive, or detriments that make keeping birds alive and healthy difficult.

the BCW sort of impressed me in that manner of being healthy. I’ve heard so many horror stories about BCW falling over dead over nothing. I lost 8 BCW chicks from the first order, due to the cold weather when I got them. They’ve been hardy birds so far. I don’t think that correlates to the standard, but they really surprised me with not being sickly, quick-to-die birds.

I hear ya on these points. My thing is with the overall community on this. Where breeding some of this breeds results in birds dead in the egg. Like with the short legged ones or even the Arucana with the tufts. It's just sad to promote breeding of such things.

Anyway enough of my misgivings on the poltry show community. It's why I'm on BYC more than their Facebook pages!

Also there are such lovely people here. That I dare call friends.

 

[Egg Snatcher]

An update on the hatch:
3/5 eggs successfully hatched yesterday and survived the night. I opened the other 2 yesterday and both chicks were dead, although I didn’t see anything exactly wrong with them.

Of the 3 that hatched, I have one dark chick(1st to hatch), one nearly white chick(2nd to hatch), and one medium-colored silver-ish chick(3rd to hatch). Ignore the black chicks, they’re from something else.View attachment 3667902View attachment 3667903
The two dead-in-egg chicks seemed to have light colored down.

As for vaults, another other observable trait at this age, 1 and 2 have minimal(sort of just bumps) vaults. 3 has a larger vault. The two dead chicks seemed to have taller vaults as well.

Ahh there cute!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I hear ya on these points. My thing is with the overall community on this. Where breeding some of this breeds results in birds dead in the egg. Like with the short legged ones or even the Arucana with the tufts. It's just sad to promote breeding of such things.

Anyway enough of my misgivings on the poltry show community. It's why I'm on BYC more than their Facebook pages!

Also there are such lovely people here. That I dare call friends.

The araucana test issue can easily be lessened by not breeding two tufted together. It's the homozygous gene that causes issues