Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Blueface]

There is a site that has nearly every aspect of the buckeye broken down into features according to the SoP. We are continually updating the site to incorporate more information regarding the breed features. I encourage all to visit.

 

[call ducks]

Ok guys. I would be willing to devote some time to devloping for it

 

[Chris Herzog]

OK just a thought....

Have one person send in or post pics of say three different Cock birds of the same breed that they own. Then the people in the know Walt, Bob, NYreds and whoever else is on the panel can discuss these three birds and place them 1,2 and 3. The rest of us will read and ask questions along the way, the owner will not get offended by getting beat by someone else, there is no competition and he/she gets a leg up on what direction to go in with their own birds and why. They could also post pics of 3 cock birds and 3 hens. The panel could then place all three cock bird as well as all three hens. Then they could make suggestions on who to breed who to and why. I could easily see how a discussion on just these 6 birds could go on for well over a week.

I think you would have people lining up to post pics of their birds....I know that I would. Better yet it wouldn't matter if the birds posted are hatchery stock or good birds from a good breeder. You start with what you have, right?. This is what they have, so this is what they will need to do in order to get to here.

Just a thought but I'm excited to see where this goes.....I'll be reading along for sure.
Chris

 

[3riverschick]

That's what I was thinking. There are enough judges here to pull this off. Of course, of course, a thousand times, of course photos aren't the same as handling a bird, but the educational value of this, showing folks what a good bird is? Priceless. Also, why? Why is this bird good, why does this bird need work and why does that bird fail to come close enough. That kind of thing. But...... also educating on what a Rock is, for example. Why is supposed to have this tail, this back, this breast, this leg set, etc. Then, what is a Buckeye? What is supposed to look like and why?

Do you think there'd be any interest in such a thread, trying desperately to keep it educational and not competitive? Truthful, but at the same time mentoring in nature?

Here is a photo essay I did of an eb/e+ rooster I once owned. http://waterfordsussexandmarans.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=9380350
Click "View as Sildeshow" , then click "Full Screen" to see closeup, enlarged pictured.
Alvin feathered out e+ wildtype so I used him as an example of a proper Golden Salmon Marans. Maybe if we had folk make this kind of photo essay where each part of the bird could be discussed... that would help keep the "show" educational and not just competitive?
Best,
Karen

 

[mschlumb]

As we pole vault over how to judge, I'm sticking my neck out here - yet again - I'm not a fan of an online poultry judging contest, especially in this context, connected with this thread which is supposed to be truly educational when it comes to real birds. As one who knows the ins and outs - the pros and cons - of digital photography, and one who loves the computer and all things online, I think this is a bad idea and doesn't promote what this thread is supposed to be all about - real birds.



Yes, yes, I know. "Go away" .... crawling back under my snowy Canadian rock .... :/  Nobody is forcing me to play.

I'm the first one to enter photos of my birds into photography contests but I'm not sure we are doing anybody any favours leading them to believe we can truly judge birds even remotely accurately, the whole bird, in this format.

I tend to agree with you. Often times pictures do not do a bird justice. I have seen many pictures in the press o champion birds that look really terrible because of the angle the pictures were taken at or how the bird was standing at that split second. Obviously they must have looked better in real life because they're champions.
It may not be the most accurate way to appraise someone's bird, especially if you are trying to look at color. You just can't see whether a bird has good color or not unless it is a real close up picture of the feathers.

Just a side note, if people get offended by losing a fake chicken show online, how well are they going to take a loss at a real show?

 

[3riverschick]

As we pole vault over how to judge, I'm sticking my neck out here - yet again - I'm not a fan of an on-line poultry judging contest, especially in this context, connected with this thread which is supposed to be truly educational when it comes to real birds. As one who knows the ins and outs - the pros and cons - of digital photography, and one who loves the computer and all things on-line, I think this is a bad idea and doesn't promote what this thread is supposed to be all about - real birds.

Yes, yes, I know. "Go away" .... crawling back under my snowy Canadian rock ....

Nobody is forcing me to play.

I'm the first one to enter photos of my birds into photography contests but I'm not sure we are doing anybody any favours leading them to believe we can truly judge birds even remotely accurately, the whole bird, in this format.

Then why don't we judge the birds in pieces? One of the hardest things for me to understand is the distribution of colors in the wings and tail and other parts of the bird. So we pick a breed, then have pics of the top and undersides of the wings of different birds in that breed, Then critique the pics and explain why coloration is correct or incorrect in each instance. What color balancing was done to the whole bird in each instance which resulted in right or wrong coloring in the wings ( or tail or hackle or saddle, etc.). We only need to view the anatomy in question to have a symposium on it, not the whole bird.
Karen

 

[Robert Blosl]

Wow look at the lurkers coming out of the wood work. What ever it should be we should be honest and not to hurt any ones feelings. I had a judge wake me up on my Buff Brahma Bantams. They dont have good feet feathers. Something I did not put much attention two. So I kept three and going to get rid of five males. The one I like best has feathers all most around his whole leg. Almost. So it should be to learn and those who here the positives and the negatives should work on the negatives and try to improve them.

The whole thing on a lot of these rare breeds is they are pretty run down. It may take five to ten people to breed them up two points to competition level in five to ten years. Some breeds are all ready there or are pretty good.

I ve told so many if I had a choice of getting three dozen eggs or ten started chicks I want to get the best gene pool I can to save me time and money on improving them or trying to just hold on to what I got. You got to remember if I have never breed a breed be for I am no different than say someone who has five years experience raising production chickens. It will take three to five years to get a feel of the breed for type and for color. Some may only want to have them as pets keep them at the level that they got split worn out short tails do not mean anything to them. That's ok. However, there are a few like Scott that wants to be the best that he can be like in his Colombian Plymouth Rocks. There are many others who have the same goals.

It should be a good experience just try not to get bent out of shape about it. I wrote a fellow about his Rhode Island Reds that he sent me pictures of and told him what he had, what faults he had and how to correct them. He had Red Rock Rhode Island Red bantams. I have never heard back from him. I guess I insulted his prize loving bantams. To me they where culls. I did not tell him that but they are not RHode Island Red Bantams. They dont have correct brick shape flat back top lines. They look like a bunch of Black Plymouth Rocks.

So that is how it goes sometimes when you tell people the truth. You guys figure out what you want. Post the name on a new thread and we will support it. I dont think it will do anything to this tread. We will continue to kick the can down the road and help people find the breeds that they want.

 

[Bentley]

This has been a very long discussion in an attempt to start a new thread to 'stay on topic'. Is this long discussion of the proposed new thread actually staying on topic for this thread?

 

[3riverschick]

Hi Walt, I need some help. I am sadly confused.

OK, we know one of the breeds used to create the Light Sussex was the Light Brahma. That early elite Light Sussex breeders wrote (circa 1920-30's) to breed Light Sussex the same as the Light Brahma for color.
Books written, 95 to 135 yrs. ago, about breeding Light Brahma seem to me to give breeding advice that will create Light Sussex of the proper color. see Judge Card's book on "Breeding Laws" and this 1877 I.K. Fletch book: The amateur's manual; or, Specific mating of thoroughbred fowls (1877) http://archive.org/details/amateursmanualor00felc . ( Pages 1-16 and 28 thru 32 ) This would seem to confirm that both breeds were then on the same locus, ( eWh? which does not have black stippling on the saddle)
Now it is 2012. I see pics and read books that show Light Brahma with black saddle stippling and that they are based on eb Brown, even tho they are a black and white breed (yes, I see how an eb bird could be black and white). Now it seems, using currently advocated breeding techniques for Light Brahma will result in faulty coloring for Light Sussex ( i.e. black stippling on the saddle, etc.).
What is going on here? Have I made a mistake in my history study?
Have Light Brahma changed locus over the last century?
What do you think of that 1877 Fletch book as regards using the advice Fletch gives for breeding Light Brahma ...for breeding Light Sussex?
Why do Light Brahma have black stippling on the saddle now-a-days?
Could they still be eWh locus like the Light Sussex, yet fashion now decrees they have stippling on the saddle in spite of the fact eWh locus does not usually produce that effect?
I know it's important I understand which breeding method is correct for my Light Sussex or I am going to screw up the color matings.
Thanks so much for your help!
Happy New Year,
Karen

 

[buffalogal]

OK just a thought....

Have one person send in or post pics of say three different Cock birds of the same breed that they own. Then the people in the know Walt, Bob, NYreds and whoever else is on the panel can discuss these three birds and place them 1,2 and 3.

As I understand it, (and this might not be at all what they mean, or where the proposed Chicken U is headed) the idea isn't to "compete" against other breeders like an online chicken show, nor is it to offer professional advice to breeders on picking their best birds. Rather, it's to illustrate the difference in breed type of several specimens of one breed so that novice owners can learn what to look for in a good bird.

I figure anyone can post pictures of their best cockerels and discuss the merits of using bird A over bird B, but what is hard to find is an *unbiased* source that teaches people how to compare different birds and their respective faults against the Standard of Perfection. I know I would rather read twenty words from an actual APA Judge about one individual of a breed I'm interested in as it compares to the SoP, than twenty web pages from a self styled "expert" with an ax to grind.