Bresse Chickens

[sweetshoplady]

Anybody ever heard of French Bresse Blue Footed CHickens? Supposed to be a really good meat bird. There was an article about chicken (to eat) in the paper and it mentioned that breed. It said that the tasteless grocery store variety was why chicken has such a poor reputation and if you had a good chicken to eat it makes all the difference.

 

[Bresseman]

Again ..I just don't understand the mentallity of not following traditional growing methods .... That have been refined over century's .... But we Americans can do better huh ? I would say it is not just the breed that makes the eating experience ...But the way it is raised and finished ... From everything that I have read it is the fat of this bird that gives it it's exquisite flavor .... and that come from finishing them with the milk and grains.

It is the way the bird is raised and finished that demands the top $$ .... Why do we in the Country want to reduce everything down. Why spend the $$$ for these birds just to raise them like regular meat birds ...

Stormy,
I think it's great to want to reproduce the french standard. I plan to finish a couple dozen or so in that manner as closely as I can as an experiment. I also plan to offer a few of these to local restaurants as samples. I think though that Americans simply don't have the experience with this kind of food except in metropolitan areas. I'm a small grower producer so I will try both the french process and also have a higher end pastured bird not finished in the french way. I live in North Carolina and while the Triangle has a fairly good restaurant and local food scene I'm afraid that a $75 bird will appeal to very few folks down here. If I am to make a living I have to cater to local tastes. Currently the Label Rouge birds from Ashley farms are doing well here. They go for $20 a serving in the local bistros. They have almost the same carcass size and weight as the Bresse. I plan to market my Bresse to this premium market. I also plan to try to educate some of the restaurateurs here with an end goal to offer the traditional finished Bresse. However I just don't think that there is a market for them locally at this time. I only sell locally within a 200 mile range. I don't and won't have access to the northeast cosmopolitan markets. Folks down here are just getting accustomed to pastured broilers and the Poulet Rouge de Piedmont offered by the aforementioned grower. The french have been accustomed to Poulet de Bresse for hundreds of years. Americans are so entrenched about $1.99 a lb supermarket birds that it's an uphill battle. I'd go broke if I offered traditionally finished Bresse at the price that American Restaurants would want to pay. A certain amount of education and acculturation has to take place before anyone goes full tilt into this market. Just my opinion!

--Drew

 

[stoneunhenged]

 

[POULET ROUGE]

The poule de Bresse is a DOC (denomination d'origine controlee). Bresse is in the Burgundy region of France. The birds are rather large, white feather and blue feet. You will never find any of these outside of the Bresse region. The breed is owned by a co-op of hatcheries, growers and processors. They control and own the genetics. I asked the representative of the group if they would eventually consider selling any breeding stock. the answer was a categoric NO. The blue foot you find in some retail stores mostly in Northeast came from Canada and are a poor knock off, the only similarity being the blue feet. not a great eating bird. Keep in mind that a Breese chicken sells in France for around $70 dressed. not your everyday chicken.
Cheers,
Denis Dronne

 

[AquaEyes]

There was discussion of the Bresse in the Breeds and Genetics area. Apparently, some breeding stock did get out of France and is spreading around Europe, but they're still rare. In any case, what makes them expensive to buy as meat is not just the breed, but also the way they are produced. And the reason for breeding them to be white with blue feet and bright red combs is because those are the colors of the French flag (and a number of other European countries...as a side note, the significance of red/white/blue is that it designates the three classes of Indo-European societies, namely the ruling class, the religious class, and the working class, respectively...and that's why those colors, or variations on the theme, are seen in so many European flags).

 

[chicken tows]

I wanted to tell my story of generosity turned to stupidity.
I was selling some eggs on Ebay. A woman buys eggs, asks me to hurry and send them, her son is terminally ill and she has had such back luck with the other sellers on ebay....oh and if I have extra, send them as well.
Wanting to be helpful, and thinking that time was essential, I offer to send chicks. I sent 8 chicks, and paid for the extra shipping, box and warmers. I told the woman if for some reason the chicks did not make it, I would send eggs.
The post office did not get the chick out in a timely manner and per this woman the chicks died. She tells me how disappointed she is, son is crying, she is crying, she is disappointed I only sent 8 chicks. I understand her disappointment, I have some disappointment and losses of my own, thank you.
So here is where the story gets good, I start doing a little research, said buyer:

• Has won 3 auctions for Bresse eggs on Ebay, leaving negative feed back for each
• Has been asking for contributions for her terminally ill son for over 8 years
• Has a second profile on ebay and is pre-selling Bresse eggs
• Has an ad on SC Craigslist selling Bresse chicks and pairs, etc.

Per our conversation through CL, she can not get it right whether her stock came from purchased eggs she hatched, or did she paid $399 each for her breeding stock.
I did send the replacement eggs, because I am a person of my word.
This is not about a sick child, this is about Cyber Panhandling, preying on people's sensitivity and just plain greed. I am putting this warning out there so if any of you that come across this woman, you have some facts.

 

[Bresseman]

Did the chickens get any kind of anesthetic for the operation? After doing the operations how long did it take for the birds to die? This seems rather nasty experience for the birds. I would never like to do this to my chickens.

I don't want to offend anyone, but how can this thing be OK? If I tried to do it to my pet parrots, dog or cat I am sure I would face animal cruelty charges.

I am not vegetarian or some crazy animal lover. I eat my chickens, but like to raise them and kill them in a humane way. It must be very painful for the chicken and stressful, and if many die that must be a loss of money for the owner.

Can't they be raised as roosters together and then butchered when required without having to do this procedure?

I appreciate your concerns as they are mine also, however I am not convinced that the birds suffer an extreme amount, however I doubt that the operation is painless. Billions of chickens are caponized without anesthesia and or pain control throughout Asia and roosters do not go to waste. As a matter of fact I believe that the standard for chicken meat in Asia is the Capon. We in the US have become used to the Cornish Cross and they do not need to be caponized they reach their weight in 45 days and some could argue that our use of that hybrid is inhumane and unethical yet we continue to raise them. Ethics becomes very grey when we are talking about the food we eat that's why some folks become vegetarians or vegans. My thinking is evolving about the caponizing thing. I have two choices I could destroy every rooster that I produce or I can cause them some pain and allow them to lead a long and fairly comfortable life culminating in a quick death and a trip to the cook pot. I think it's a waste and totally unethical the way our hatcheries dispose wholesale of roosters and this is one way I can avoid that. Could I use anesthetics...yes but I can't afford to and I don't have a license to buy or administer anesthesia. There are many ethical dilemmas that we come across as folks who raise our own food and food for others. I try to limit how much suffering my birds go and I try to respect the birds I raise. I don't mistreat them in any way. Some might construe this as mistreatment and I might agree with them. However I think the only way to get the process perfected so the bird suffers less stress and less damage is to practice and one of the only ways to get better at doing a thing is to do it many times. Believe me I don't enjoy caponization but I hope the results will justify the birds short period of discomfort.

 

[racinchickins]

What I am looking for is a general idea of what are current Bresse owners looking for in their birds, and what qualities should we push so that future owners will want to buy them. I have some ideas, but wanted to get others opinions too. At this point, with ABs so new to the US, I wasn't thinking that anyone was ready to start writing an SOP.

Since I first posted asking what qualities I should select for in my birds, I have given it a lot more thought.
I see potential in this breed of chickens as a possible niche alternative to cornish X meat chickens. They will never supplant them commercially, but I believe they could be a viable choice for people who don't want to participate in the 'Industrial chicken machine'. So I got a group of chicks to raise to evaluate. I'm just starting out, and at this point only have 10 males and 8 females. I believe that to be successful, I will need to come up with a direction I want to move in and a plan to get there.

Having read (and re-read) the history and popularity of the Bresse in France, it has gotten me thinking about their future, if any, here in the US. (Disclosure: I lived in France for a year and a half and am very familiar with the French culture and gastronomy and how it differs drastically from that of the US)

In order for a breed of chicken to be successful in the long term (even mid-term), it has to have one or more significant reasons for people to raise them that differentiate them from birds that already popular. At first glance, to the average person, the AB looks like any other white chicken. To the average chicken person, that could be modified to ‘looks like a White Rock with the wrong color legs’.

So what makes, or will make, the AB special? This is what needs to be answered for there to be any American Bresse chickens in the US 10 or even 5 years from now. This is what takes the breed past the initial 'fad/new bird' phase. The answer to this question should also dictate what we select for in our birds for the future generations.

Here are some of my ideas on what makes the AB a special chicken. Please feel free to add to, elaborate on, or even vehemently disagree with my list. I can’t fit all my thoughts on these in one post, but this will be a start to the conversation.

1. Meat -The Bresse is first and foremost a meat chicken. It is regarded as THE premiere eating chicken in France. However, except to certain minority, that carries no weight for American consumers. To survive in the US, the AB needs to be able to stand on its own with people who don’t know the history. The AB will need to compete in size and meatiness with other meat and dual purpose breeds. But to differentiate itself, the AB will need to stand out in regards to taste The AB will need to have a footnote like you see in descriptions of the Dorking or the La Fleche that it is recognized as one of the best tasting chickens around. . I have yet to eat one (That will change soon), and I am hoping that all this time and expense I’ve put into raising them will be worth it.
2. Rate of Growth – One thing I have noticed about my AB’s is that they have grown more quickly than any other breed of chickens that I have raised. At 18 weeks, they are some of the larger chickens on my farm. I haven’t processed any yet, so will be interested to see if they just have a big frame, or if they have filled out too. I process most of my roos from other breeds at between 20-25 weeks, so I will have something to compare them to.
3. Blue Legs – What we have here is a genuine Red, White, and Blue chicken. If you can’t market that in the US, what can you market?
4. Eggs - Some people on here have posted that the hens are surprisingly good layers of nice large eggs. Mine aren’t laying yet, but several are showing definite signs of being close (at 19 weeks!) If we have a superb meat chicken that is also a decent to good layer, we have some definite potential here. Most of the meat type breeds don’t lay that great (I have 25 week old Dark Cornish hens that LOVE to eat, but no eggs yet, or even signs of eggs) A lot of the well known heritage breeds are also suffering from having been bred to show, but their production aspects haven’t been maintained as well. Others are working on improving this, but we could have a breed here that starts out with both aspects doing well. I’m not saying they should lay like leghorns, but if they lay better than other DP/Meat breeds, that is another positive to point at.

I decided to stick to only 4 items, since more than that would be overwhelming to try and work with.

This is turning into a long post, so I’ll end it here. I look forward to discussions with everyone on what they think! And to how we can turn those thoughts into a direction to move forward.

 

[bayocum]

It is tough to compare the 2 due to the fact that they are raised in a much different manor

in France Bresse are raised on pasture so the feed bill is almost zero

once they have grown to a point then they are moved to a building to be made ready for market

they are then feed milk & grain for a period of time (not sure how many weeks)

then they are processed.

so it's kind of like looking at apples & oranges they are just so different

I would agree with piglett.

Do cornish X gain weight faster than AB? Yes. Do Leghorns lay more eggs than AB? Likely. But I think that sounds like an industry argument that misses the point. If we were to do a 5 year trial, closed flock, with birds raised in a natural environment, free-range with no GMO supplements, no antibiotics, in short, with as little input from man as possible, I think the answer would be quite different. For one, the cornishX would, if we were going purely by time-to-market weight, MIGHT win exactly ONCE, as long as they were able to avoid predation, find enough food, and survive. After that, they would not be capable of reproduction and therefor would be unsustainable, arguably one of the most important aspects of raising a flock for food. The Bresse on the other hand, would take longer to get to a market weight, but would provide eggs, hatch their young, live without artificial support and far out produce anything the CornishX could do in one generation. As for the Leghorn, there is a chance they would survive the entire 5 year trial, and might, under natural circumstances, have a chance of out-laying the Bresse, but you would be pretty hungry at dinner time. So, though both of those breeds, under artificial conditions, might outpace the Bresse in ONE area, neither would be a single solution, otherwise known as a dual-purpose bird. As for an "official industry study," I'll leave that up to others…while I go on raising Bresse

 

[tbird9]

I also have concerns about the genetic diversity (or lack thereof) of American Bresse. I originally purchased Bresse hatching eggs from GFF lines and had a mediocre hatch. Ok, I'll give the benefit of the doubt because they were shipped. When I grew the chicks out (and there were a couple of crooked toes on cockerels), I tried to hatch their eggs with poor results, even though they were fertile. The second time I set eggs, not a single one hatched. After that, I only crossed Bresse with other breeds and had, as expected, high hatch rates (and no crooked toes).

I'll grant that maybe the breeder I got my eggs from had issues with his stock, but I hope the gene pool has deepened since then.

What I have heard (on good authority) is that shortly after GF released their first import they lost the entire flock to a predator attack. They have been able to import again, but those are the lines that people have reported the most problems with. Most people who have them now have the later imports or a mix of the three. I am one of the lucky ones who got the first import and never introduced any of the subsequent lines into my flock. I have not kept up with all the reported issues, as I am happy with what I have and did not plan on getting into the hatching eggs/day-old chicks game.

Since I learned that I may be one of the few people in the country with a “pure” flock of the first import I have gone to the trouble of getting NPIP certified and hope to be able to help in getting those genetics back out to people.