Bumblefoot spreading through the flock

[speckledhen]

Ciprofloxacin is a second generation fluoroquinolone, this whole class is flat prohibited in food animals (chickens included).

I never saw any real benefit in systemic antibiotics in treating bumblefoot. "Getting out the garbage" is the best way. However, as far as Cipro, if you are not eating the bird, sometimes, the big punch of that particular antibiotic is needed. It was the drug that saved Zane's life when all others had failed to knock out a bad infection in his hock joint and we were about to put him down. Being a rooster that was a pet and not an egglayer, I did not hesitate to use it. It was his salvation. But that's me and everyone needs to decide what they'll do.

If the pus plug is left in the foot, antibiotics are not going to fix the problem, IMO. That's been my experience, anyway.​

 

[mypicklebird]

The risk is not to the bird per say- the drugs are in general very safe, but those meds are on 'the' prohibited list- and the Veterinarian who prescribes this class drug knowingly to an food animal faces license suspension (if reported). In your case, I would hazard a guess that you have a good relation with a vet who trusts you enough not to let the bird enter the food chain at some point, and not to report him/her. With most posters that happen to have Enrofloxacin/Baytril, or Cipro ect- I think they have them left over from a dog/cat's resistant bladder infection or they didn't finish their own bronchitis medication... and are wondering if they can use them in their chicken. These are powerful and often last resort meds in human and veterinary medicine, and should only be used as such.

There are many good choices out there besides fluoroquinolones for staph infections, which is often the bacteria in bumblefoot. For a joint infection (Zane)- fluoroquinolones are good- they can get into the joint space where many antibiotics can't & they 'get' most gram neg rods- which joint infections often are. Standard bumblefoot is usually a different creature- gram + cocci. I just do not want to see someone giving this med just because they happen to have it, which is why I responded to that specific part of this thread.





reported
Quote:
I never saw any real benefit in systemic antibiotics in treating bumblefoot. "Getting out the garbage" is the best way. However, as far as Cipro, if you are not eating the bird, sometimes, the big punch of that particular antibiotic is needed. It was the drug that saved Zane's life when all others had failed to knock out a bad infection in his hock joint and we were about to put him down. Being a rooster that was a pet and not an egglayer, I did not hesitate to use it. It was his salvation. But that's me and everyone needs to decide what they'll do.

If the pus plug is left in the foot, antibiotics are not going to fix the problem, IMO. That's been my experience, anyway.

 

[dlhunicorn]

info I gave on cyns thread
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies&action=display&num=1223815278

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=practical&action=display&num=1158141893
(see the two aVIAN WOUND MANAGEMENT links > one of them has great photos illustrating the ball-type bandage needed

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=diseasecasestudies&action=display&num=1159620742
> CASE STUDIES from the orig BYC (before yuku) in the Disease section and I remember one case (which ties in to several vet articles ) on the use of a compounded topical application of DMSO and PenG (it MUST be PenG and not the "regular" penicillin) > systemic antibiotics are to get any toxins release into the system from the infection but is not able to get to the site of the infection in bumblefoot cases > the DMSO PenG applied at the site itself (pack and bandage with a ball bandage) will. The DMSO enables the med to go deeper into the infection (This is verified in the vet info) In the bumblefoot thread in the case Studies a member went to avian vet who injected it (no surgery to remove as it was not that far along) and it worked a treat for his bird... in the raptor groups (lots of bumblefoot issues with these birds) is also well known and I really feel without this she will not heal nor get better.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/50700.htm&word=gangrene
"... If treatment for diseases in the first category is attempted, large doses of antibiotic are indicated to establish effective levels in the center of necrotic tissue where clostridia are found..."
YES on the saline flushes and GranulexV treatment as described by another poster on page two I believe. (use granulexV not granulex > it is the trypsin than is the enzyme debridement) You are gonna have to do this daily and keep her AWAY from the ground in as sterile an environment as possible.

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/ind...generalinfo&num=1160175172&start=0#1160175172
http://www.anmldr.com/PalmVet/Mixed-13-1-2-3.htm#bumblefoot
(excerpt)
Treatment of bumblefoot in raptors includes both nonsurgical and surgical. Wound management is often the most challenging aspect of treatment and is usually accomplished by application of ball bandages. These bandages consist of gauze sponges placed on the plantar surface of the foot that are incorporated into a bandage by wrapping the digits (using cast padding and an elastic nonadhesive dressing) in a circular-longitudinal fashion in a "ball" around the sponges. It is important to incorporate the distal tarsometatarsus into the bandage to support the phalangeal and tarsometatarsal joints and to use many sponges to provide adequate cushioning of the plantar surface. Ball bandaging with a dimethyl sulfoxide "cocktail" is often effective for treating mild cases of bumblefoot. The formula consists of 8 ml DMSO, 2 ml dexamethasone (2 mg/ml), and 2 ml piperacillin or carbenicillin (500 mg/ml). Other common topical medications include udder cream to soften the feet, and hemorrhoid medication to promote epithelialization. Sharon Lynn Deem, DVM, PhD - Compendium, April 1999

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/160706.htm
Factors that interfere with wound healing

 

[Rae_37066]

I noticed today that several of my chickens had a swollen foot, after reading on here I have decided it is bumblefoot( the pics look the same as their feet). I went to doctoring them. I cut around the scab part and pulled it out and squeezed and a large piece of yellow blob came out. I put antibiotic on it and wrap it.
While I was doing this the hen kept clenching her toes up and the smaller back toe lines right up to where the scab center was. I think it started by her poking her nail into her foot while roosting. I trimmed all of their nails ( not sure if they are called nails or claws or something else, lol) I noticed that most of them have a poked spot on their feet and some are worse than others.

Do you think it's from not trimming their nails? There is no nails, broken bottles, etc laying around where the chickens usually live or free range.

 

[Rae_37066]

also it seems if you flip the chicken onto it's back it seems to quiet down and go to sleep. either that or they knew I was trying to help them. It didn't seem to hurt them when I squeezed.

 

[Judy]

Quote:
Yet another reason why wider roosts are better for chickens. They are more comfortable having the foot flat whle sleeping; it is not natural for them to hang onto a pole, as it is for so many other birds.

The usual recommendation on here is the wide side of a 2x4. For really large birds, even this probably is not wide enough.

Nothing wrong with trimming nails, though I doubt many people bother unless they show.

 

[Judy]

Quote:
Yes! There are posts on here about "hypnotizing" chickens. This is essentially what is done.

 

[Rae_37066]

Quote:
Yet another reason why wider roosts are better for chickens. They are more comfortable having the foot flat whle sleeping; it is not natural for them to hang onto a pole, as it is for so many other birds.

The usual recommendation on here is the wide side of a 2x4. For really large birds, even this probably is not wide enough.

Nothing wrong with trimming nails, though I doubt many people bother unless they show.

they have the 2 x 4 wide end to perch on, so I don't know.... It just seemed like the spot was exactly where the toe curled up to when she was trying to stop me from messing with it. They scratch and get everything like they are supposed to so I don't know why they have such long claws. they are about 9 months old.

 

[CityGirlintheCountry]

I have decided the reason it is spreading like crazy through my LF flock is roost placement. Tomorrow I am taking all of them down and moving them to a foot off the floor. I think they are hurting themselves hopping from one to another. We'll see if that helps.