can adult chickens be vaccinated for marek's?

[mithious]

Hi all, have read this whole thread and am sooo very sorry!!! My heart is so heavy for all of you!!!

The reason I decided to post on here, is that on the raising baby chick thread, I am reading a lot of people have recently ordered chicks and are having large amounts of death in their orders.

I had posted a link to this thread, after another OP had asked if it could be mareks. No one would come read what you all have posted, which I think is vital to starting to put a dent in this disease. I got attacked verbally and put down by all!!! Sooo sad!!! Seems no one wants to know, or admit that what you all are saying could be even possible.

Nor do they want to learn. One called it an exotic disease, another said baby chicks from hatcheries can't get mareks, that their flocks could not give it to very young chicks or if they did, the chicks would not show symptoms for weeks or over a month old...

Is it possible for baby chicks to arrive with mareks? I thought I had read on here that they could...from all that I have read on here, it seems to me, that this "shipping stress" that these new, urban chicken owners are attributing the deaths to, could be mareks...the symptoms are sooo similar!

I must say, it really hurt to be so crushed by so many new to chicken, owners, after trying to atleast lead them here so they could learn...then they have this "chicken math"...talk about a recipe for disaster!!!

I may be new to this forum but am not new to raising chicken, nor am I a young un, or urban pet chicken owner. I am not saying that all that is a bad thing...just that it hurt, to try to teach them, or lead them here, and be "slapped in the face" for it...

Thanks in advance for any answers!!!

God Bless you all for what you are doing to help those of us that want to learn, through all your heartache and your willingness to teach us!!!

 

[Haunted55]

Hi all, have read this whole thread and am sooo very sorry!!! My heart is so heavy for all of you!!!

The reason I decided to post on here, is that on the raising baby chick thread, I am reading a lot of people have recently ordered chicks and are having large amounts of death in their orders.

I had posted a link to this thread, after another OP had asked if it could be mareks. No one would come read what you all have posted, which I think is vital to starting to put a dent in this disease. I got attacked verbally and put down by all!!! Sooo sad!!! Seems no one wants to know, or admit that what you all are saying could be even possible.

Nor do they want to learn. One called it an exotic disease, another said baby chicks from hatcheries can't get mareks, that their flocks could not give it to very young chicks or if they did, the chicks would not show symptoms for weeks or over a month old...

Is it possible for baby chicks to arrive with mareks? I thought I had read on here that they could...from all that I have read on here, it seems to me, that this "shipping stress" that these new, urban chicken owners are attributing the deaths to, could be mareks...the symptoms are sooo similar!

I must say, it really hurt to be so crushed by so many new to chicken, owners, after trying to atleast lead them here so they could learn...then they have this "chicken math"...talk about a recipe for disaster!!!

I may be new to this forum but am not new to raising chicken, nor am I a young un, or urban pet chicken owner. I am not saying that all that is a bad thing...just that it hurt, to try to teach them, or lead them here, and be "slapped in the face" for it...

Thanks in advance for any answers!!!

God Bless you all for what you are doing to help those of us that want to learn, through all your heartache and your willingness to teach us!!!

The old saying about leading a thristy horse to water, but you can't make him drink....

Yes it is possible for a chick from a hatchery to come to you with Marek's. There are a lot of ways they could come in contact with it and if someone actually thinks about the journey they make to get to our homes they would see that all of the oppurtunities of picking up something are there and waiting. Could it have come from the hatchery? I would say it would depend on the hatchery and how careful they are with the breeders they use and the day to day handlers of thses birds.

The Marek's I now have in my flock came from birds purchased at TS who got them from Mt. Healthy hatchery. In doing the research to track this down last year, I found there were a lot of violations at this hatchery and if I remember correctly, not all have been addressed yet. Was Marek's one of the diseases found there? I was told by the Vet handling this investigation of the hatchery, that it was probable but testing and investigation was still being done so they didn't want to say for sure. Yeah.....

Sometimes we could be sitting on the answer to save the world and no one will listen to us. Maybe there's a reason for it and maybe it's just human nature to ignore what we don't want to admit. Can't tell you for sure. It happens to all of us at some point and all you can do is roll with the punches. You did the right thing, but look at it another way. Maybe it wasn't 'those' people you were supposed to help. Just maybe, it's someone later on who will be in need of your insight and because of it, you may become more help than you could imagine.

Keep the faith and don't let them get to you. They have their own journeys to make and if it is Marek's, eventually they will make it to one of these threads that those of us that have it, frequent.

 

[mithious]

Thank you for those words!!! I was truly depressed and sad that no one would even consider it possible. This one girl, had lost 8 chicks total, from different orders, same hatchery, but would NOT tell me what hatchery...sigh...I read this whole thread, from beginning to end, after stumbling on it and learned sooo much!!! HUGE thank you to all of you that have contributed, especialy those of you that are going through this personally!!! I am following your every advice to T! I know that will not ensure that I don't get it in my flock, but will greatly improve the odds!!!

This is such a horrible disease!!! I am praying for you all, every day!! You all are in my heart and I am so grateful you are willing to share your experinces. You have taught atleast one person, ME, how, what, why and I thank you, from the top to the bottom of my heart, for that!!!!

Haunted55 I just sent you two PM's that you asked for! and thanks so much!

I wish there was a sticky on the raising baby chicks thread about this, as that seems to be where most of the "new to chickens" people seem to go to.

I was shocked by the thread and the large losses those people were having! I did try to tell them that their chicks "could" come in contact through even the shipping...the one gal that started the thread wouldn't tell me the hatchery she got the orders from though...was thinking maybe that hatchery was having problems and it would save others from the same fate...but she refused.

Just know, you have helped me, and I have stepped up my biosecurity measures, and all the other measures you have all provided for us!

HUGE thanks again!!! I am in your debt!!! I have dreams, and now, thanks to you all, have a chance to fulfill those dreams!!!

 

[iamkylene]

Whe

    I agree for the most part, however, with these 2 vaccines neither is to prevent the disease.  Coccidiosis is such a debilitating condition, once they show symptoms even if they survive they don't seem to flourish or ever reach their full potential as the intestinal damage is already done.   Studies have been done where pullets were raised on wire and never touched the ground and still developed life threatening coccidiosis.  The vaccine is so simple, it just introduces the 6 most lethal strains of coccidia and the rest is up to the chickies. 

I'm not an advocate of vaccinations by any means unless necessary for the well being of the flock or due to exposure to a disease.  I can, at times, be lax with the Marek's vaccine but as long as the CocciVac is available, everything that goes to the outside brooder gets vaccinated here.   It's only my unprofessional opinion but it is an absolute life saver for the little chickies.   (  I'am not an advocate of medicated feeds - water etc. either  ).

It still amazes me how mother nature takes care of  the little guys when they are raised by a broodie, but I've see it as well.
Good luck to you all! 

where would I get the vaccines and how old can they be before they can't get it anymore?

 

[Haunted55]

Marek's usually hits before or at around 5months of age. If you're worried about a five year old dying of Marek's - don't, I'd be more worried about him dying of old age

The thing is, you can vaccinate older birds, but the vaccination will have no effect if they've been exposed at all to the actual virus. Because it is so highly contagious and can be carried in the air from a few miles away, we kind of have to assume all our birds are exposed at some point.

The vaccine will have an effect, but at 5 years, I agree, he doesn't need to be vaccinated, as he has already been exposed to Marek's. The only time I would even think of vaccinating a bird this age is if you knew for certain that the strain of Marek's was a mutated one, that he may not have been exposed to.

Excellent job WallTenters!

 

[seminolewind]

Hi. I copied my post from the Marek's thread:

$20.00 plus shipping thru Twincitiespoultry.com

Re: vaccinating adults. (Am I beating a dead horse?)

The vaccine gives a "safe" exposure and the blood builds the army against the disease so that if it comes in contact with real Marek's, it already has the army built.

The Marek's exposed birds , unfortunately got an "unsafe" exposure, which means the virus got there before the army was built.

Technically, if one is absolutely sure they have No Marek's in their flock, vaccinating adults in the flock would probably work. Meaning the vaccine offers a "safe" exposure to get the army built before it's exposed to the real thing.


HAunted!!! Good to see you here again. I missed you being here!

 

[seminolewind]

Most of Marek's symptoms do not fit in a specific list. Most of the ones you read about, are the classic symptoms. But Marek's has many other symptoms possible . The longer your flock has had it, the better you get at spotting potential victims in your own flock or other's flocks.

Some of us have varied opinions, because there's so many unknowns about Marek's , most of which have remained unanswered for many many years. Haunted, Casportpony, Schnebbles, Lonewolf1 and I and others (please add name) have experienced Marek's symptoms for a few years already, and share that information. Some of us have gone way beyond or obsessively search for scientific research and possible new information.

 

[GardenerGal]

Marek's has been in my barn for at least 7 years. Once there, forget about getting rid of it, short of bleaching your coop and starting with all new birds. My flock is a combination of naturally immune and vaccinated (chicks I got this year). Natural immunity is preferable over vaccination, but sometimes there is no choice if you need to bring new breeding stock or layers in, and have to get it from a specialty hatchery rather than a small breeder you can trust.

 

[Haunted55]

I will add this...Marek's is an insidious attacker. The chicken's body doesn't recognize what it is allowing into itself as Marek's acts like a normal cell when it comes into a host. This is why, I have always said it could be a good thing...a very good thing, to vaccinate your birds even after exposure. The bodies will attack this new 'threat' introduced from the vaccine and may lend itself into teaching the chicken's immune system into 'seeing' the Marek's virus as an outsider that must be eliminated with prejudice. You have absolutely nothing to lose except the 20 bucks plus shipping to try. small price to pay on the chance it may work. Just MHO.

 

[seminolewind]

I will add this...Marek's is an insidious attacker. The chicken's body doesn't recognize what it is allowing into itself as Marek's acts like a normal cell when it comes into a host. This is why, I have always said it could be a good thing...a very good thing, to vaccinate your birds even after exposure. The bodies will attack this new 'threat' introduced from the vaccine and may lend itself into teaching the chicken's immune system into 'seeing' the Marek's virus as an outsider that must be eliminated with prejudice. You have absolutely nothing to lose except the 20 bucks plus shipping to try. small price to pay on the chance it may work. Just MHO.

This is one of things that my dear friend Haunted and I disagree about. I think once exposed to Marek's, the body already knows to fight it, just, it's too late. I see the vaccine as a *safe* exposure so the immunities are already there if the real thing comes around.