CATS. arrrrrrggghhhhh

[Blooie]

My cat is both an indoor and an outdoor cat. He is neutered, licensed and has all required vaccinations as well as collars. He still has all of his claws and he is very good about keeping the mice at bay. He only gets fed indoors and we do not leave food outside. Do I think all cats are bad, no. Feral cats are a problem, but I seriously feel that shooting it with a bb gun is a little in-humane. I'm not saying that because I own a cat, it's more of a respect for the animal, no matter what it is. I'm a predator hunter, and even though I kill coyotes and the like, I don't ever shoot to hurt, I shoot to kill. There's no reason to put any animal in pain, no matter what kind it is. That cat is just doing what it is programmed to do...hunt. Please don't take this a personal attack on your choices, I am only sharing my opinion on the subject. When it comes down to it, it's your choice and you have to do what you feel is best.

To answer your question, try using the herb Rue. Cats hate the smell of this herb with a passion. Maybe planting some of this around the property would help.

I really do appreciate the suggestion. I've never heard of that product but I'm willing to try anything at this point. I've tried balloons, topped my fence with electric fence, sprayed cayenne pepper solution around that hole in my trailer, having the town set traps, and a quick burst with the garden hose during the warm months. Look, my aim is not to hurt or destroy anyone's pet. But when you're faced with an invasion of them it's a little tough go through them one at a time and identify which ones should be left alone and which ones are a problem. I KNOW who owns the big black and white tom who keeps getting under my trailer and spraying under there to mark his territory. I tried to do the neighborly thing and talk to her about it two weeks ago. I got the same speeches you have all been giving....cruel to keep them confined, he never gets hurt or sick, he's keeping the rodent population down, he comes home to eat so I'm not expecting anyone else to feed him for me, he's had all of his shots, he loves to be outside....all of it. But the bottom line is that he's not my cat. I don't want him. If I wanted a cat I'd get another one. To that she just smiled...."Well, there's no law against him being out." Not yet.

As a member of the town council, I can sure see about fixing that. I might fail, but I can't complain if I don't take steps for myself and for all of the other folks in town who don't want other people's cats (or feral cats) in their yard. I haven't introduced an ordinance to this point because it seemed like a pretty good way to make a few enemies in town, and I don't want that. However, since a couple of the other council members have issues as well, and since it costs this town money to send out our public works guys to set traps when a citizen calls and complains, I may stand a chance. Every single critter here in town falls under some kind of ordinance - except cats. The lady next door to me has 3 horses. The man across the street fattens up steers on his vacant lot next to his house and his goats live very happily in the same lot. 4H kids have their lambs and walk them up and down the street, fitting them for fair time. Many of us have chickens. Roosters are even allowed here. The only thing our town ordinances require - require - is the purchase of a permit and that those animals kept in town do not bother neighbors with excessive noise, smell, pests, and that corrals and pens be kept clean and healthy for the animals as well as the citizens. Dogs are required to have a license, proof of all vaccines, and to be under leash control or within a secure fence. People have until the last day in February to get that license. The town clerk keeps the list current. Come March 1st our local (and only) police officer visits every house with an unlicensed dog and gives them a reminder. If they don't comply, they get a hefty fine. Why not cats? There is little difference between a feral cat and a domestic one. It takes just a short time for an abandoned cat to revert. A domestic cat will usually come over to say "hi" when I step outside, and a feral cat will run. I license my dog every year, showing the required proof of vaccinations. My yard is fenced. My dog is an indoor/outdoor dog - she goes out to play, to be near us when we're out there, and to go potty. If she barks at someone going by on a bike or riding their horses by, she gets called in. I keep my yard cleaned up - personally I think dog feces stinks to high heaven and my non-dog owner neighbors don't need to smell it.

Is it too much to ask for the same courtesy? I repeat...why do only non-cat owners have to be tolerant and turn a blind eye? One of my neighbors, Vickie, owns two cats. Hers stay indoors. But she can't even leave her little grandson's sandbox out overnight. This is being a responsible owner?

 

[blucoondawg]

I guess I am lucky in that my county animal control ordinance doesn't specify only dogs it is more of a domestic animal ordinance basically if your animal is causing others a nuisance you are responsible for it and can be cited, however it is an uphill battle with the sheriff's Dept to get them to do anything more than give them a good talking to. No domestic animals are legally allowed to be running at large be it dog cat cow whatever, if it is a repeated problem fines will be issued and animals can be removed

 

[VulpesVulpes]

I really do appreciate the suggestion. I've never heard of that product but I'm willing to try anything at this point. I've tried balloons, topped my fence with electric fence, sprayed cayenne pepper solution around that hole in my trailer, having the town set traps, and a quick burst with the garden hose during the warm months. Look, my aim is not to hurt or destroy anyone's pet. But when you're faced with an invasion of them it's a little tough go through them one at a time and identify which ones should be left alone and which ones are a problem. I KNOW who owns the big black and white tom who keeps getting under my trailer and spraying under there to mark his territory. I tried to do the neighborly thing and talk to her about it two weeks ago. I got the same speeches you have all been giving....cruel to keep them confined, he never gets hurt or sick, he's keeping the rodent population down, he comes home to eat so I'm not expecting anyone else to feed him for me, he's had all of his shots, he loves to be outside....all of it. But the bottom line is that he's not my cat. I don't want him. If I wanted a cat I'd get another one. To that she just smiled...."Well, there's no law against him being out." Not yet.

As a member of the town council, I can sure see about fixing that. I might fail, but I can't complain if I don't take steps for myself and for all of the other folks in town who don't want other people's cats (or feral cats) in their yard. I haven't introduced an ordinance to this point because it seemed like a pretty good way to make a few enemies in town, and I don't want that. However, since a couple of the other council members have issues as well, and since it costs this town money to send out our public works guys to set traps when a citizen calls and complains, I may stand a chance. Every single critter here in town falls under some kind of ordinance - except cats. The lady next door to me has 3 horses. The man across the street fattens up steers on his vacant lot next to his house and his goats live very happily in the same lot. 4H kids have their lambs and walk them up and down the street, fitting them for fair time. Many of us have chickens. Roosters are even allowed here. The only thing our town ordinances require - require - is the purchase of a permit and that those animals kept in town do not bother neighbors with excessive noise, smell, pests, and that corrals and pens be kept clean and healthy for the animals as well as the citizens. Dogs are required to have a license, proof of all vaccines, and to be under leash control or within a secure fence. People have until the last day in February to get that license. The town clerk keeps the list current. Come March 1st our local (and only) police officer visits every house with an unlicensed dog and gives them a reminder. If they don't comply, they get a hefty fine. Why not cats? There is little difference between a feral cat and a domestic one. It takes just a short time for an abandoned cat to revert. A domestic cat will usually come over to say "hi" when I step outside, and a feral cat will run. I license my dog every year, showing the required proof of vaccinations. My yard is fenced. My dog is an indoor/outdoor dog - she goes out to play, to be near us when we're out there, and to go potty. If she barks at someone going by on a bike or riding their horses by, she gets called in. I keep my yard cleaned up - personally I think dog feces stinks to high heaven and my non-dog owner neighbors don't need to smell it.

Is it too much to ask for the same courtesy? I repeat...why do only non-cat owners have to be tolerant and turn a blind eye? One of my neighbors, Vickie, owns two cats. Hers stay indoors. But she can't even leave her little grandson's sandbox out overnight. This is being a responsible owner?

I guess that I am one of those responsible pet owners. I have spoken to my neighbors and have asked on several occasions about my cat roaming the neighborhood. None of neighbors seem to mind. Like previously stated, my cat has all of it's vaccinations and we keep it healthy and groomed ad it has a vaccine/license tag on it's collar.

I think the bigger problem is that some cat owners feel it's the cats' right to roam at large. Even though, mine does, I feel that if it's my pet, it's my responsibility to make sure that my "at large" cat isn't affecting anyone else in a negative way. So I regularly talk to my neighbors to make sure he isn't causing any problems.

I understand everyone's agitation in this matter. If we all ( cat owners and non owners ) come together, and share as much information with each other as possible, we can help each other through the power of knowledge.

 

[blucoondawg]

I guess that I am one of those responsible pet owners.  I have spoken to my neighbors and have asked on several occasions about my cat roaming the neighborhood.  None of neighbors seem to mind.  Like previously stated, my cat has all of it's vaccinations and we keep it healthy and groomed ad it has a vaccine/license tag on it's collar. 

I think the bigger problem is that some cat owners feel it's the cats' right to roam at large.  Even though, mine does, I feel that if it's my pet, it's my responsibility to make sure that my "at large" cat isn't affecting anyone else in a negative way. So I regularly talk to my neighbors to make sure he isn't causing any problems.

I understand everyone's agitation in this matter. If we all ( cat owners and non owners ) come together, and share as much information with each other as possible, we can help each other through the power of knowledge. 

It's good that you try to make sure it isn't a problem but you should also know that it may be an irritation to some neighbors who simply say it doesn't bother them because they don't want to make an enemy of a neighbor.
I have a neighbor whos dogs are a constant problem and he will say my dogs aren't bothering you are they, then if you indicate they are a problem an argument starts and he gets nasty. This is why many people will just tolerate this kind of thing until something pushes them over the edge, then cats and dogs get shot or the authorities are involved and fines are levied.

 

[VulpesVulpes]

It's good that you try to make sure it isn't a problem but you should also know that it may be an irritation to some neighbors who simply say it doesn't bother them because they don't want to make an enemy of a neighbor.
I have a neighbor whos dogs are a constant problem and he will say my dogs aren't bothering you are they, then if you indicate they are a problem an argument starts and he gets nasty. This is why many people will just tolerate this kind of thing until something pushes them over the edge, then cats and dogs get shot or the authorities are involved and fines are levied.

I don't know how they do things in Wisconsin. In Colorado, unless you catch a domestic animal attacking a person or livestock, you can't just shoot it because it's on your property. If you do, that's when you get a fine for animal cruelty. So am I to understand that if your coon dog steps foot on my property, I can kill it, just because it's curious? No, and I wouldn't. You want to preach how your chickens have a right to live in peace. I agree, but I'm not going to shoot someones pet just to prove a point. I will do everything in my power to deter them and keep them out.

If it's feral, by all means do what you must. But if you know the owner and the cat has a home, don't just kill it so that you can feel better about your integrity as a chickeneer. Livestock farmers have dealt with predation for centuries, but that wasn't always in an urban setting. If you live in a more urban setting, of course you will deal with more predation from domestics than those in the country. It's a 2 way street. Some people own pets, others own livestock such as chickens. I have both. If you live in the same area, you will just have to figure out how to get along.

If killing someones pet makes you feel better as a person, go for it. I'm sure whatever child that loves that animal will understand completely where you are coming from.

I do not wish to continue to bicker with you on this subject. You have made it very clear that your way is the right way and anyone whom might challenge that thought is completely wrong. I respect your choices as they are your choices, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. Let's just agree to dis-agree.

 

[EggresiveAli]

Yes I agree mostly with Blooie, if people know the risks of cars, BB guns, dogs why let your cat out. Yes in Scotland I am entitled to kill it if it's on my property. For all I care that cat is a predator and pest, I have no problem with killing it, and therefore if I see it on my property EVER again, I won't hesitate to kill it.

 

[blucoondawg]

I don't know how they do things in Wisconsin.  In Colorado, unless you catch a domestic animal attacking a person or livestock, you can't just shoot it because it's on your property.  If you do, that's when you get a fine for animal cruelty.  So am I to understand that if your coon dog steps foot on my property, I can kill it, just because it's curious?  No, and I wouldn't.  You want to preach how your chickens have a right to live in peace.  I agree, but I'm not going to shoot someones pet just to prove a point.  I will do everything in my power to deter them and keep them out. 

If it's feral, by all means do what you must.  But if you know the owner and the cat has a home, don't just kill it so that you can feel better about your integrity as a chickeneer.  Livestock farmers have dealt with predation for centuries, but that wasn't always in an urban setting.  If you live in a more urban setting, of course you will deal with more predation from domestics than those in the country.  It's a 2 way street.  Some people own pets, others own livestock such as chickens.  I have both.  If you live in the same area, you will just have to figure out how to get along. 

If killing someones pet makes you feel better as a person, go for it.  I'm sure whatever child that loves that animal will understand completely where you are coming from.

I do not wish to continue to bicker with you on this subject.  You have made it very clear that your way is the right way and anyone whom might challenge that thought is completely wrong.  I respect your choices as they are your choices, but that doesn't mean I have to like them.  Let's just agree to dis-agree. 

I don't know what your problem is nor why you claim I am preaching anything I simply stated some folks will go along with certain annoyances to avoid a confrontation with a neighbor. And yes if something attacks people or livestock it can be shot also for doing damage to private property. I am not talking about a pet that gets out of its yard a handful of times over the course of a couple years, I am taking about animals which are continuously allowed to roam or kept in conditions which allow them to continually break out of their enclosure and wreak havoc in other people's yards. Here domestic animals will also be killed for killing wild animals. Anyways you are doing a wonderful job showing the rest of us the exact mentality of someone who believe it OK for your cat to roam the neighborhood

 

[VulpesVulpes]

I don't know what your problem is nor why you claim I am preaching anything I simply stated some folks will go along with certain annoyances to avoid a confrontation with a neighbor. And yes if something attacks people or livestock it can be shot also for doing damage to private property. I am not talking about a pet that gets out of its yard a handful of times over the course of a couple years, I am taking about animals which are continuously allowed to roam or kept in conditions which allow them to continually break out of their enclosure and wreak havoc in other people's yards. Here domestic animals will also be killed for killing wild animals. Anyways you are doing a wonderful job showing the rest of us the exact mentality of someone who believe it OK for your cat to roam the neighborhood

Have a good day.

 

[Blooie]

WHOA...Truce!! I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. The town I live in has a total population of 600 or so, and of those some live just on the outskirts of town - close enough where they use the post office as their address. So to answer someone's question, yes, I do live in town.

I believe I outlined pretty clearly the steps I have already taken to try to get my yard back. I even spent a little time a bit ago researching the plant mentioned just a few posts back that I can put in to deter them. But I'm the only one trying....the owners of the cats in question are content to let me do all the work while their cats are hiding, spraying and sometimes creating another generation under my house. I don't remember saying that I'd shoot anyone's cat. I will, however, call the guys out to trap, and what happens to them after that is up to the guys. And I frankly don't care if someone wants to let their cat out to roam the neighborhood, secure in the knowledge that their cat wouldn't do anything to be a problem to someone else. Unless you have a video camera mounted on your cat's collar, you have no idea if he's getting into trash and scattering it, eating something he shouldn't be, or crawling under someone's car when their engine is still warm because it's -20 degrees outside and he just wants to be comfortable for that few minutes until the car cools off. If you want to let Fluffy out then by all means, unless there's an ordinance prohibiting that, go right ahead. But you need to understand eventually it's too often the cat that pays the price, and at that point the owner invariably becomes furious at the loss.

I said that here in this town we have a serious problem. I'm not talking 4 or 5 cats that get out on occasion and that's all the community is looking at. I'm talking 9 or 10 just on my property and I only have a lot 110 x 130 or so. I'm talking trapping out 14 cats in a vacant field the same size as my lot in only two days' time. That goes well past inconvenience and all the way to infestation. The irony is that most of those cats are owned by someone. If my beloved grandkids' cat - the kitty I got for them,by the way - got out and was lost or injured, I know how heartbroken they would be, so I can well imagine how someone feels when their cat doesn't come home after a night out. I don't particularly want to put any family through that. So why am I put in that position?

I'm not trying to convince anyone to keep their cats indoors, and I don't think my position is the only way. I'm just telling you what I've learned from 10 years as a vet tech, a cat lover and owner, and a property owner. In that 10 years I did learn one thing - you can tell people why their puppies need de-worming and Parvo vaccines, but you can't make them do it. You can tell them that indoor cats are just as content as outdoor cats, and probably safer, but you can't make them keep them inside. It's a choice thing. You're going to do what you're going to do. And I'll do what I have to do to protect my property, my possessions, my home and my chickens.

So we agree that there are two sides, we agree that we won't ever totally agree, and we agree that cats are pretty special creatures. Truce?

 

[VulpesVulpes]

Everything is fine and there are no hard feelings on this end.