Chick Challenges DIY Feed

[ChickyCh00k]

This is not a recipe. It is only a few ingredients used in unrealistic amounts to demonstrate the process of figuring out what ingredients might work.

How to formulate rations

If you get it only a little off, you probably won't notice the effects or will attribute the effects to something else. If a hen gets sick, is it because she was exposed to something or because her immune system is weak. If her comb gets frostbitten, is it because it was too cold or because her circulatory system was compromised. And so on.
Step 1, find the percent moisture
This website explains how

Step 2, find the nutritional value on a dry matter basis

Step 3, calculate the amount of the nutrient in the amount of ingredient used in your batch of feed

Step 4, calculate the amount of each nutrient in 100 pounds of your mix (which is the same as Step 3 if your batch is 100 pounds but that takes more math. Or at least put more of the math earlier in the process.) This gives the percentage of that nutrient in the feed.

Step 5, compare the percentage in the feed to the percentage needed by the chick. Each nutrients has a minimum and a maximum but only one is given for many feeds because the other limit is not going to be approached if the basics are met.

Example: Barley, whey, beef, eggshells, mealworms,

Feedipedia, except fresh ground beef is from this website

Barley at 10% moisture with methionine at 1.7% on a dry matter basis.

100 pounds of barley x 0.1 is 90 pounds dry matter x 0.017 is 1.7 pounds of met

Whey at 95% moisture with met at 1.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of whey x 5 pounds dry matter x 0.015 is 0.075 pounds of met

100 pounds of ground beef at 80% moisture with met at .... my source doesn't give it on a dry matter basis. It can be calculated but isn't needed here.

Met calculations for ground beef: 11% protein, 5.6 g of protein. Of which 140 mg is met. So 140 mg out of 5600 mg of protein is 2.5% of the protein portion is met. Rounding to 10% to make the math easier, 2.5% of 10% is 0.25% met. So 0.25 pounds in 100 pounds of ground beef.

Eggshells at 1.1% moisture with met at 2.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of eggshells x 98.9 pounds dry matter x 0.025 is 2.47 pounds of met

Mealworms at 57.8% moisture with met at 1.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of mealworms x 0.422 is 42.2 pounds dry matter x 0.015 is 0.633 pound of met

So in 500 pounds of feed, equal amounts of barley, whey, ground beef, and fresh mealworms results in
1.7 + 0.075 + 0.25 + 0.633 = 1.775 + 0.883 = 2.658 pounds of met. 7.016 in 1000 = 0.7% met, as fed

Chicks need 0.52% minimum. So this formula works for methionine.

Next, repeat for Lysine. If there is enough of these two, there is likely enough of all the other amino acids (basically, enough protein).

Next, repeat for energy, fat, fiber, calcium, and phosphorous.

If you don't use a vitamin and trace mineral mix, then also repeat the above process

That's a full time job right there!

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

Do your potential customers know what you're putting these chicks through? I'm not sure you would have any potentials left if they did..

Give them some real food and re-evaluate, do some proper, thorough research and think everything you are doing. Think about it, think about the source of these eggs..those lovely birds..

 

[AnnPann]

Are you sure you even have buyers for this many chicks at a price that will cover your efforts here (including losses)? Like, did they preorder them? And would your buyers prefer healthy, thriving chicks over not so healthy, but fed a very specific feed?

I can understand wanting to feed higher quality feed from the start. Have you looked into small feed producers that offer organic, corn/soy free feed? Something like milefour? They even have a whole grain option for chick starter feed (https://milefour.com/products/chicken-starter-feed) It’s expensive to go this route, but sounds like you are committed to this project so maybe this could be a good compromise to do with this round of chicks. Gives you some time to do some more research and decide what’s feasible for this endeavor.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This is not a recipe. It is only a few ingredients used in unrealistic amounts to demonstrate the process of figuring out what ingredients might work.

How to formulate rations

If you get it only a little off, you probably won't notice the effects or will attribute the effects to something else. If a hen gets sick, is it because she was exposed to something or because her immune system is weak. If her comb gets frostbitten, is it because it was too cold or because her circulatory system was compromised. And so on.

Step 1, find the percent moisture
This website explains how

Step 2, find the nutritional value on a dry matter basis. The only really reliable way is to get a representative sample tested. Otherwise, Feedopedia is about the best one can reasonably get.

Step 3, calculate the amount of the nutrient in the amount of ingredient used in your batch of feed

Step 4, calculate the amount of each nutrient in 100 pounds of your mix (which is the same as Step 3 if your batch is 100 pounds but that takes more math. Or at least put more of the math earlier in the process.) This gives the percentage of that nutrient in the feed.

Step 5, compare the percentage in the feed to the percentage needed by the chick. Each nutrients has a minimum and a maximum but only one is given for many feeds because the other limit is not going to be approached if the basics are met.

Example: Barley, whey, beef, eggshells, mealworms,

Feedipedia, except fresh ground beef is from this website

Barley at 10% moisture with methionine at 1.7% on a dry matter basis.

100 pounds of barley x 0.1 is 90 pounds dry matter x 0.017 is 1.7 pounds of met

Whey at 95% moisture with met at 1.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of whey x 5 pounds dry matter x 0.015 is 0.075 pounds of met

100 pounds of ground beef at 80% moisture with met at .... my source doesn't give it on a dry matter basis. It can be calculated but isn't needed here.

Met calculations for ground beef: 11% protein, 5.6 g of protein. Of which 140 mg is met. So 140 mg out of 5600 mg of protein is 2.5% of the protein portion is met. Rounding to 10% to make the math easier, 2.5% of 10% is 0.25% met. So 0.25 pounds in 100 pounds of ground beef.

Eggshells at 1.1% moisture with met at 2.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of eggshells x 98.9 pounds dry matter x 0.025 is 2.47 pounds of met

Mealworms at 57.8% moisture with met at 1.5% on a dry matter basis

100 pounds of mealworms x 0.422 is 42.2 pounds dry matter x 0.015 is 0.633 pound of met

So in 500 pounds of feed, equal amounts of barley, whey, ground beef, and fresh mealworms results in
1.7 + 0.075 + 0.25 + 0.633 = 1.775 + 0.883 = 2.658 pounds of met. 7.016 in 1000 = 0.7% met, as fed

Chicks need 0.52% minimum. So this formula works for methionine.

Next, repeat for Lysine. If there is enough of these two, there is likely enough of all the other amino acids (basically, enough protein).

Next, repeat for energy, fat, fiber, calcium, and phosphorous.

If you don't use a vitamin and trace mineral mix, then also repeat the above process for each vitamin and each mineral

No guarantees I did all the math right. i struggle with math at the best of times.

and @saysfaa , you skipped a step.

Barley Grain.

(Average) Crude Protein in Barley grain (100lb) is 100lb x (0.871 Dry Matter) x 11.8 (Protein as % of DM) = 10.3# (10.2778) per Feedipedia.org

Of that Protein, 1.7% is Methionine.

10.3 x 0.017 = 0.175# of Met per 100# of Barley Grains.
and since I'm doing the math, and talking about averages, let's go back to the top, shal we??? See those columns for Min and Max??? If the wettest (least dry matter) sample of barley they tested was also the lowest crude protein as percent of dry matter tested (Improbable, I know, but we are demonstrating the range of potential here within the samples averaged), that's 100 x .828 x .085 = just 7.3# of protein in as 100# sample.
and if it were the driest, highest protein batch (equally, if not more, improbable), that's 100# x .916 x .161 = 14.75# of Protein.

So with just this one ingredient, our raw protien input can vary, potentially, 100% in value. Now I could sit down with the standard deviations (they offer that too) and calculate the *likely* range of a theoretical average, but even that's just an educated guess.

and to OP, THIS is why I said what I did. Because I know what I'm talking about. My seeming dismissiveness comes from understanding the practical realities of what you assume to be true.

Its like GPS. Clearly, GPS *CAN* be done. Its in widespread common use, where it was reserved to the military and bulky equipment just 50 years ago. Can it be done at home? NO - all we can do is use commercially produced units or chips from others. Now if you want to build a working toilet at home with clay dug from your yard? I can help with that. Its simple physics. But like GPS, mankind has only been able to directly measure sulphur containing amino acids like Methionine directly for about 50 years. Unlike GPS, that technology is not in home use, nor are there over the counter test kits.

 

[Brooks_]

So with just this one ingredient, our raw protien input can vary, potentially, 100% in value.

I think this is a perfect example of why making one's own feed should only be done when commercial options just don't exist.

 

[Finnie]

Ground barley soaked in whey
Raw ground beef
Half water/half whey for drink
A mat of grass from outside for grit/greens

There’s no way you can make a balanced diet with only 4 ingredients.

My only rules are everything must be raw (no-soy) and no manufactured supplements. In other words, all the vitamins/minerals must come from raw foods in their diet.

As many have said before me, you need to do a lot of research to find all the raw foods you are going to need to supply all the necessary vitamins and minerals.

 

[SmiYa0126]

You've received really great replies to your questions. My grandparents raised chickens in communist Russia. The article below is a great example of what they were fed. They also had a cow that calfed every year, raised pigs and grew their own vegetables, fruits, and also had a potato patch. Nothing was wasted, their animals got a varied diet.

https://stillnessinthestorm.com/202...heir-chickens-before-commercial-chicken-feed/

 

[saysfaa]

and @saysfaa , you skipped a step.

Barley Grain.

View attachment 3318152
(Average) Crude Protein in Barley grain (100lb) is 100lb x (0.871 Dry Matter) x 11.8 (Protein as % of DM) = 10.3# (10.2778) per Feedipedia.org

Of that Protein, 1.7% is Methionine.
View attachment 3318153

10.3 x 0.017 = 0.175# of Met per 100# of Barley Grains.
and since I'm doing the math, and talking about averages, let's go back to the top, shal we??? See those columns for Min and Max??? If the wettest (least dry matter) sample of barley they tested was also the lowest crude protein as percent of dry matter tested (Improbable, I know, but we are demonstrating the range of potential here within the samples averaged), that's 100 x .828 x .085 = just 7.3# of protein in as 100# sample.
and if it were the driest, highest protein batch (equally, if not more, improbable), that's 100# x .916 x .161 = 14.75# of Protein.

So with just this one ingredient, our raw protien input can vary, potentially, 100% in value. Now I could sit down with the standard deviations (they offer that too) and calculate the *likely* range of a theoretical average, but even that's just an educated guess.

and to OP, THIS is why I said what I did. Because I know what I'm talking about. My seeming dismissiveness comes from understanding the practical realities of what you assume to be true.

Its like GPS. Clearly, GPS *CAN* be done. Its in widespread common use, where it was reserved to the military and bulky equipment just 50 years ago. Can it be done at home? NO - all we can do is use commercially produced units or chips from others. Now if you want to build a working toilet at home with clay dug from your yard? I can help with that. Its simple physics. But like GPS, mankind has only been able to directly measure sulphur containing amino acids like Methionine directly for about 50 years. Unlike GPS, that technology is not in home use, nor are there over the counter test kits.

Thank you

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you

Anytime. You were off to a great start, but it was WAY too early for math.

My excuse? I had a LOT of coffee this AM.

 

[Debby R]

Please don't do this. It is EXTREMELY difficult and costly to make your own feed  correctly. You are already seeing the effects of a lack of proper nutrition on the current batch of chicks. Please buy some commercial feed, made by experts, to avoid further morbidity and/or mortality. This hurts my heart.

I hope @U_Stormcrow will weigh in here.

Mine too. This is crazy. How about Purina Organic?