Chicks Keep Dying - any ideas?

[cafarmgirl]

Klmclain1: Thing is, the first one was dying when I opened the box. So maybe the mix isn't angelic like a commercial feed, but that is obviously not the issue. I'm convinced it's a disease of sorts.


Chicken_Pauper: Nope, no cedar shavings.


Edit: The chick poo is normal until right before they die.

Commercial chick starter isn't "angelic" either but it IS complete! It has all the nutrients, vitamins, and minerals in the correct amounts that chicks need to grow and be healthy.

Of the things you listed that you are feeding them: oats, barley, linseed oil, and wheat bran..... NOT a balanced or nutritionally complete diet for chicks. If this is all they have along with grass etc. then honestly I'm not surprised they are dropping like flies. And they would need real grit, granite chick grit to digest those things. Egg shell is not grit.

I have never, ever had to supplement chicks with vitamins or probiotic's or any other nonsense. They get their commercial chick starter and that's it. As was mentioned it is available in organic.

Yes, it is common to loose a chick or two right after shipping but if they start dropping like flies you need to look elsewhere and in this case diet seems to be the most glaring problem.

 

[LadyEquus]

Wow. Talk about a vicious forum. Where did all that come from? I don't see this in other threads. I question even responding and it's probably a bad idea choosing to do so, but I'll just know to never post any questions here ever again!

There is nothing wrong with their feed. I HAVE done research, contrary to what some of you may think. And alot of people on this forum also make their own feed, so it should sound relatively normal around here.

There are many people who successfully use the ground egg shells as grit. It's all over the internet, and we all know the internet is legit *cough* (sarcasm).

A typical commercial chick feed starter can include any combo of soy, corn, wheat, barley and oats. I use the linseed for the soy because linseed is high in protein like soy, many people omit corn as did I, wheat I've got, barley I've got, oats is what some would just call "scratch" like wheat so I'm not using two of them.

The herbs were also given from research of people that successfully use them for their chicks - each herb with it's own beneficial properties. And yes, chickens will eat them if they feel like it, though it is obviously not a main staple and they only peck a little at it. Being in contact with the oils physically is how it is commonly beneficial to them, so that's the main purpose of using it.

 

[dawg53]

I believe you are dealing with cocci. There are 9 types of cocci that chickens can get. Not all of them can cause bloody feces. I recommend you treat them with corid 9.6% liquid solution. Dosage is 9.5cc's per gallon of water for 5-7 days. It wont hurt them even if they dont have cocci.
As far as the feed goes, they should only be fed chick starter/grower feed. Oils coat the intestinal lining preventing nutrient absorption. They are being starved of nutrients.

 

[Daisy8s]

LadyEquus, I agree, those previous posts got really vicious. I haven't seen that before either. Please stick around BYC--that isn't the norm.

You didn't mention how many chicks you have altogether. Perhaps you could do an experiment where you put some of them on a commercial chick starter to see if that helps? I also see your point that people raised chickens for years without commercial feed so that isn't the only possible food source for chicks but if you put some of them on it you'd at least be able to rule out if this is a factor or not.

I do think the point about increased protein is important. What about adding cooked, scrambled eggs?

My chicks got grit from a bowl of sand I'd placed in their box so they could dust bathe. You could add that, in addition to the eggshell, just in case the eggshell isn't cutting it.

You mention that you've raised chicks before. Are you reusing any equipment that maybe should've been sterilized before reuse? Just trying to help you brainstorm here.....

 

[LadyEquus]

There are 9 types of cocci that chickens can get. Not all of them can cause bloody feces.

Somehow I did not realize there are so many types. I'll look into the matter, thank you.

LadyEquus, I agree, those previous posts got really vicious. I haven't seen that before either. Please stick around BYC--that isn't the norm.

You didn't mention how many chicks you have altogether. Perhaps you could do an experiment where you put some of them on a commercial chick starter to see if that helps? I also see your point that people raised chickens for years without commercial feed so that isn't the only possible food source for chicks but if you put some of them on it you'd at least be able to rule out if this is a factor or not.

I do think the point about increased protein is important. What about adding cooked, scrambled eggs?

My chicks got grit from a bowl of sand I'd placed in their box so they could dust bathe. You could add that, in addition to the eggshell, just in case the eggshell isn't cutting it.

You mention that you've raised chicks before. Are you reusing any equipment that maybe should've been sterilized before reuse? Just trying to help you brainstorm here.....

I do have enough to split them I think. Maybe I can try that - it's just that the mix I'm giving them makes alot of sense to me because it is so similar to what everyone uses. It also seems to me that they would all be dying at the same time if it was the feed.

I'll try the egg. Either that or increase the linseed which is the source of protein. It seem this is a "better too much than not enough" type thing?

When I change the bedding tomorrow I think I'll just use sand/dirt instead. I haven't heard of anyone doing it, but it makes sense. It's a solid bottom so that's an option.

And yep, I bleached the dishes before I put them in the cage with this new batch.

Thank you for the KIND comments and trying to help me figure this out!

I obviously just want to know what is wrong so I can deal with it!

 

[Daisy8s]

Glad I could be of help....it's very distressing to see chicks die. I hope trying these changes solves the problem!

 

[just1morechick]

I posted on another thread before I found this, but my chicks are dropping like flies. I use chick starter from TSC. I even tried grinding it finer thinking they weren't able to eat the crumbles. I hatched 22 last week and only have 5 survivors. It has happened with our last few hatches. I am using hay in the bottom of the brooder... a big plastic storage box. Could this be causing the problem? I have had a friend suggest terramycin???

 

[Erica]

LadyEquus,

With the greatest respect for what you're trying to do, I think you do need to look more closely at the feed, as what you're feeding is quite definitely wrong for chicks. Flax (linseed) is never recommended for young chicks because of antinutritional factors and/or toxins which cause the bird to be unable to absorb nutrients from food. Crushed eggshell is given to layers for calcium; too much calcium will kill chicks. (Incidentally, the white droppings could be kidney failure from too much calcium.) Barley is also not recommended for chicks. When you see 'barley' written on a feed bag, it's quite likely to have been cooked first, or to have added enzymes making it digestible. Chicks simply can't digest barley well at all, not without heat treatment or extra enzymes.

Nobody doubts that your heart's in the right place and I think it's commendable that you're trying to learn how to do something from (literally) scratch.

There are other possible causes of white droppings and chick deaths you might think about. I don't want to alarm you, but it's possible they might have been infected with salmonella (which would cause white diarrhea, and could result in staggered deaths among infected chicks), or fowl typhoid (also causes white droppings in chicks). However if you added quite a lot of eggshell (say above 5% of the feed), and if there's no actual diarrhea sticking to their bottoms, I'd be suspecting kidney failure first.

Good luck,
Erica

edited typo

 

[Erica]

I posted on another thread before I found this, but my chicks are dropping like flies. I use chick starter from TSC. I even tried grinding it finer thinking they weren't able to eat the crumbles. I hatched 22 last week and only have 5 survivors. It has happened with our last few hatches. I am using hay in the bottom of the brooder... a big plastic storage box. Could this be causing the problem? I have had a friend suggest terramycin???

Hi just1morechick,
that's a big death rate.

Were these incubator hatched? Losses in the first week are unusual, as hatching alone requires a chick to be in pretty good shape. Usually in the first week losses tend to be either brooder inadequacy (e.g. too hot, too cold -- easily fixed), or if that's ruled out, something like a germ acquired during hatch (septicemia via the navel will kill chicks slowly, often over a few weeks. In the latter case they cheep a lot, huddle, don't eat and then weaken and die, often with a discolored, darkish abdomen). A good clean and airing in sunlight would kill most germs in the incubator, but there are also some good sterilizer products you could use. I don't think there's much success with treating septicemia, I'm sorry.

If you had many eggs not hatch, I guess it's possible there were nutritional inadequacies in the parent birds that are slowly killing the chicks... But I wouldn't expect so many deaths so quickly; and there would be leg problems galore, I'm sure. In other words I think you'd be seeing other symptoms.

I suppose it could be coccidiosis, but I've never seen that in chicks below 2 weeks of age, personally. However if they were put onto ground that was very high in coccidia oocysts (e.g. that had been used to raise many batches of chicks, often past 3 weeks of age when cocci shedding really skyrockets) it's possible. Treatment would be corid or similar.

Sorry I can't help greatly, but these are some ideas that may point you in a direction that helps.
best wishes
Erica

 

[Dagirls]

I would also switch to medicated feed. Shipping causes stress maybe get them settled in for a couple weeks. Then start offering the additional goodies. I feed my hens from my organic farm but I always keep food in the box just so that they can keep the nutrient balance needed if they want it. I feel your pain and watched one by one as chicks that were stressed in shipping lost their battle. I can empathise as I realized as I researched what could be wrong with my chicks that there are a LOT of things that can kill chickens.