Cochin Thread!!!

[lindz8504]

Personally, I can see where a little more meat on them would be a good thing.... Those extra cockerels would be nice not to have to process half a dozen to make a meal.....

I think the point is that not everyone is worried about winning shows, but would like to have a better "all-around" bird without screwing up what is already there..... No reason to get upset and defensive.

 

[Blue]

I was curious if there were any dedicated breeders of Cochins on this thread that were trying to restore this breed to its original genetics of being an excellent dual purpose bird known for meat and egg production?

I have actually wondered this myself on occasion. I have some standard cochins, though they are mixed colors from project birds I ordered a couple years ago, and I don't show, so I can only make a guess at their type based on looking at pictures of other cochins and try to keep working in that direction. I mainly keep them because I think cochins are gorgeous birds and like their overall temperaments (except for one hateful rooster so far). I don't really plan on showing, but I would like to try and breed mine to make them look closer to the standard. However, I'd like them to still be decent layers (as I mainly sell extra eggs from my chickens to help pay for their upkeep), so I find your question very interesting. Out of several breeds I've had, cochins are in my top 3. However, they do have some issues at the moment as dual purpose birds.

My cochins lay fairly well when they're laying; mine tend to lay in the fall, winter, and early spring. Then, in the summer, they start slacking off the laying and start going broody. I had one that stayed broody nearly all summer; even when I put her in a pen with no nest box, she just started setting on the ground. lol. They're very determined about it, too. I think just about all my cochin hens tried to go broody at least once last summer. I divided some eggs between several of them, and they seemed satisfied with that.

As for their meat properties, I have only eaten one cochin so far, but the taste was fine, better than store bought, but probably not as good as some of the more typical birds used for meat. I used a crock pot, so the meat wasn't tough either. I may end up eating more eventually because I know if I hatch out more, I'll most likely wind up with some more roosters in there, and right now, I have 4 cochin roosters.

I still think type is important, though, because it still needs to look like a cochin. I know that some of the show quality cochins' feathers have to be trimmed so they're fertile. I think that's a bit more fluff than I may want personally. I like them to be able to reproduce without human intervention. However, for show, the fluffier, the better, so that's something that needs to be taken into account.

I think that it's possible to get cochins to the point where they are excellent dual-purpose birds and still look the way they're supposed to, but it will take a lot of work. It seems like it would be a very, very slow process to improve the other qualities while still keeping the type intact, but I don't think it's impossible. If it was impossible, the breed would've never existed in the first place with the qualities you mentioned, and other dual-purpose breeds have improved in areas like this without losing their aesthetic qualities. I'm not sure how one could go about improving their laying qualities honestly; I wouldn't really want to outcross them to a different breed because that would really affect type (mine are probably not show quality anyway), so maybe pick your best looking birds and breed them to some hatchery cochins, which generally lay more. My idea was to maybe try breeding my best egg laying cochins and see if their offspring also inherit that trait. It's definitely an interesting proposition.

 

[NanaKat]

Blue, your comments are thoughtful.

BeeKissed, I believe your question about dual purpose is genuine knowing your queries on other threads. I don't see conversation on this thread about restoring the Cochin breed to its original heritage as a dual purpose breed. It seems the focus is on show quality rather than egg or meat production. I firmly believe we can have both.
My Cochin stock come from great breeders who show their birds. I believe in breeding to the Standard of Perfection. AND My LF Cochins are a joy to watch and lay 3 - 5 eggs a week when not broody or molting. That can be said of many breeds. Cochin cockerels are meaty in the thighs and legs, less breast meat than my Wyandottes, but the meat is tasty and tender.

 

[Beekissed]

I think you came here with the very intention of stirring the pot, GOOD JOB.

I am simply the outspoken one who doesn't think you have a solid base of knowledge in genetics, biology or selective breeding.

The majority of the breeders in this thread are very happy with our birds. We will continue to enjoy, and improve them according to the SOP put forth by the APA and ABA. I eagerly await your dual purpose bird that conforms to that standard.

No...I didn't come to stir the pot.

I came with honest questions. You are correct about my knowledge base on breeding, biology and genetics...I know absolutely nothing about them.

I'll tell you what I do know...I know chickens. And I can learn about the other. You see, the secret to expanding a knowledge base is to open your mind to new ideas and learning and that I can do...I've got that in spades.

I think that it's possible to get cochins to the point where they are excellent dual-purpose birds and still look the way they're supposed to, but it will take a lot of work. It seems like it would be a very, very slow process to improve the other qualities while still keeping the type intact, but I don't think it's impossible. If it was impossible, the breed would've never existed in the first place with the qualities you mentioned, and other dual-purpose breeds have improved in areas like this without losing their aesthetic qualities. I'm not sure how one could go about improving their laying qualities honestly; I wouldn't really want to outcross them to a different breed because that would really affect type (mine are probably not show quality anyway), so maybe pick your best looking birds and breed them to some hatchery cochins, which generally lay more. My idea was to maybe try breeding my best egg laying cochins and see if their offspring also inherit that trait. It's definitely an interesting proposition.

I think so too. The only reason I was even interested was I happened into a stray Cochin cockerel that I liked the bones on and was just curious as to why the breed is considered so worthless now for anyone serious about chickens. Seems like they used to be a hot ticket back in the day and it seemed kind of sad that something so good was so carelessly tossed away by bird "fanciers". They aren't my usual type of chicken but I was curious.

Thank you for the feedback...it was informative!

Blue, your comments are thoughtful.

BeeKissed, I believe your question about dual purpose is genuine knowing your queries on other threads. I don't see conversation on this thread about restoring the Cochin breed to its original heritage as a dual purpose breed. It seems the focus is on show quality rather than egg or meat production. I firmly believe we can have both.
My Cochin stock come from great breeders who show their birds. I believe in breeding to the Standard of Perfection. AND My LF Cochins are a joy to watch and lay 3 - 5 eggs a week when not broody or molting. That can be said of many breeds. Cochin cockerels are meaty in the thighs and legs, less breast meat than my Wyandottes, but the meat is tasty and tender.

Good feedback! Thank you! That's all I needed to know, really...can they lay and can they build meat and still pass as a Cochin? And, yes, my query was genuine...I don't know that I ever really go on a thread to rattle cages and stir a pot, but usually with a certain idea or question that needs some feedback or answer. Thank you!

 

[Triplell]

Hello fellow friends,
I hatched out 3 LF Cochins 4 days ago. My problem is I cant tell if they are Blues or Splashes. Does anyone have Pictures of their chicks of these colors?

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

Feel I can't say what needs to be said but will try anyway. Really want to know if I know poultry you will have to ask my friends!




I still feel that the idea of dual purpose Cochins is not practical. Slow growth rate and poor feed conversion along with marginal foraging skills do not make them a prime candidate for Dual Purpose. In all honesty Welsummers and Buckeyes are better dual purpose candidates. That said all breeds lay eggs and have meat. but that does not make them dual purpose.

I take much "historical data" on any breed as hype. Too often the printed material is to promote selling livestock. Think Llama, Emu. Alpaca, Ostrich in just the last 30 years. After a while the reality sets in and people enjoy them for what they really are or they get out.

I am a Breeder of Cochins who has driven many thousand miles in 2013 exhibiting and sharing my birds with those who love them for what they are. Many thoughts have crossed my mind yesterday Few of them pleasant.

The APA has been around since 1873. I trust the APA to have made the Standards for the breed based on the best information of the time. My historical data..

dak is doing excellent work restoring Gold Laced Cochins to quality not seen. Years of work and at great expense Has EARNED respect the Cochin community.

 

[Pozees]

Beekissed, it would appear to me the breed isn't considered "worthless by anyone serious about chickens" based on the many thoughtful responses you received. Perhaps readers took your questions as efforts to stir the pot because of your choice of words. Just a thought.

 

[mibirder]

I could be mistaken, but I believe that there is quite a large difference between the modern exhibition Cochin and the first Cochins brought to Europe from China. Even those birds were considered to be bred for looks and not as a dual breed for the Emperor - I don't believe they were developed as a production breed. Poultry, like most domesticated organisms have different varieties of function. There are production varieties and there are exhibition varieties. A few May have been selectively bred to fit into both but not most.

What you are discussing would be like asking why we don't fatten up a modern leghorn to make it a table bird as well as an egg bird - that makes little sense as it is not intended for that production. Keep in mind that the original chickens were jungle fowl - who are poor layers, scrawny, slender birds not worthy of much food and not particularly good mothers. It has been through the selective breeding that these birds have been developed for different purposes and conditions. Modern Cochins were developed from parent stocks that were selected not for their dual purpose abilities, but for their broodiness, temperament, and exhibition qualities. If you have issues with that you'd need to discuss it with the Emperor and Queen Victoria of England.

 

[mindylee]

Look at all the different breeds of dogs....some breeds for sure aren't useful, but people like and breed them because they're cute, pretty, or neat looking.
What good is a minature horse?
People have changed many animals over the years to be pets and nothing else. They become companions and are bread to be.
I love the way Cochins look with all their feathers and love their attitudes. They are my pets that I get eggs from....maybe not everyday, but at least 3-4 days a week.

I enjoy Cochins way more than any breed we've raised for meet or eggs.

HAY! I breed miniature horses!
LOL

I do all kinds of stuff with mine. I show them on a competitive level and for fun. I also have one that has gone to children hospitals and parades and cart another. But yeah they are pets!

 

[Pozees]

Very pretty mini!