Constipated Audrey

[JAZsMom]

Audrey is a 5.5 week old, barred rock. Since day one Ive gotten a kick out of her creative pooping. Sometimes she runs backwards before going, sometimes her wings go straight up, etc. It's recently occurred to me that I think she has a chronic constipation issue.

She's developed a white drip from her vent that cakes on, much like gleet..but no poop stuck on there. Ive been giving her epsom salt baths for the past 6 days and twice shes made a HUGE poop...not a chick poop! She's also been getting ACV in her water and probiotics. She has improved a lot in the past 2 days, but is still a mess. She eats and acts totally normal, btw.

What do you do when 1 chick has a chronic constipation issue, but the other 5 chicks and 2 hens are fine??? and she wont eat anything unless shes with her girls?!????

 

[chooks4life]

Ongoing issues over a long enough time period, whether diarrhea or constipation, damage the eliminatory tract, both the mucosal surface and the muscles, and it generally becomes a descending spiral of issues that just snowballs if not 'nipped in the bud' --- however in this case I am not sure there's too much you could have done. Constant diarrhea can eventually cause constant constipation, and constant constipation can eventually cause constant diarrhea; both weaken the gut over time. Either way they end up in a sorry state if gut issues are not addressed quickly and thoroughly, but, not all gut issues can be fixed.

It sounds to me like she was 'born' abnormal though, as her group is fine and she's the only one having issues and has been from day one. That eliminates a few possibilities... If that's the correct perception of the case anyway, that is --- when you mention she's pooped this way 'from day one' it's not clear if you've owned her since her literal first day of life, or whether you noticed this issue from buying her onwards at a later date. (?)

She may be deformed internally or she may have a metabolic disorder for example preventing her from utilizing or processing calcium/magnesium properly; such problems are actually quite common, far from rare or even unusual, and they are specifically very common to layer breeds.

Being a female, if she doesn't respond to treatment, it may be more humane to cull her before she begins laying as she is clearly at exacerbated risk of egg binding and prolapse, and death from either or complications of being unable to eliminate properly, i.e. septicemia.

It's pretty normal for her to be too distressed by separation from her group to eat, that probably doesn't mean anything.

The ACV is good, should help a fair bit if it's unpasteurized and whole (with 'the mother' in it); it would likely benefit her to add more cal-mag to the diet, i.e. crushed eggshells, dolomite, a proprietary mix, aglime of the sort you can feed to them, whatever.

Stinging nettle, if you have it, is an excellent and readily bioavailable form of calcium and magnesium as well as many other nutrients and oils, and will get her into fine health; it's one of the most nutritious land plants out there. Personally I reckon a stew isn't a truly great stew without nettle in it. You can easily grow it in most places but it can be a weed if let go. You just dry it and crumble it and add it to the feed or make a tea out of the raw stalks and leaves.

It should also help if you add cold pressed olive oil to the diet, as this was an old-timer's advice to prevent egg binding and over years of keeping chooks and many hundreds of hens I've never had a single case, so there must be something in it... Raw healthy oils (not petrochemical-derived, not mineral oil, vegetable oil, soya or cottonseed oils either as these are either directly harmful or pesticide/herbicide laden or overprocessed and heat-treated) will maintain the flexibility of mucosal membranes and cardiovascular systems, so adding a quarter-teaspoon of olive oil or a bit more than that to her diet once a day should help her a lot.

If she's not getting enough fiber in her diet it should help a lot as well to give her enough. Letting her pick her own grass is best, if she's not already able, but since she has issues already, if she's never free ranged or had access to grass, I would very carefully and gently wean her onto grass or sprouts as a sudden dose of fiber could be harmful to a weak GI tract. Giving her a grated or minced apple first, every day or so, can help, as it's high fiber and will help get her gut strong and clean.

You can sprout your own grains or seeds for her, which will be very tender and easily digested, or let her at a very short cut and strongly rooted-in patch of grass and stop her if she tries to swallow too long a piece. A little supervision when first free ranging chooks can help them 'learn the ropes'/ranging skills without them harming themselves.

Giving her good strong oystershell grits first will help prepare her for more fiber and help her process food better. If the grits are too soluble/friable, too blunt, too rounded, too small, etc, they won't do her the most good. Her gut needs to be strong. It's not too well known that the digestive system also needs exercise, and pellets/crumble/mash all turn to mush and sludge within their guts and renders their digestive tracts weak, prone to prolapse, and inefficient, often making them ravenous guzzlers with sluggish digestive systems who are very feed inefficient so eat huge amounts.

In this case, if my initial understanding of what you're saying is correct, then I think she most likely has an internal abnormality and chances are will always need extra care, and always be at heightened risk of complications, but, I've kept some such animals who were special needs and high risk for whatever reason before and there's still a quite decent chance she can have a fairly normal and healthy life. But if you can't correct this bowel issue before she starts laying, the outlook is not good. Last time I saw an animal struggle so much to poop, it was a herniated kitten, and his story didn't end well.

Best wishes with her.

 

[JAZsMom]

First of all, thank you for sharing your huge wealth of knowledge! SO very appreciated! If I leave anything out, please let me know- it's going to take quite awhile to digest all of this info!

When I say day 1, I actually mean day 3, when she arrived with her 5 flock mates. I have seen her poop normally many times (she really likes my shoulder

), however, some times she does appear to struggle to go to the bathroom. I don't know what started the white drip, but it appears her vent was pecked by a hen so severely that a chunk was taken off the top. Today marks days 7 of salt baths, antibiotic and antifungal treatments and she looks awesome! Nothing like my other barred rock, but if you saw her a week ago you'd be amazed.

I don't mind a little extra work to keep her healthy and happy. I also don't mind if she can't lay eggs. We got our girls as pets, they just happen to have fantastic benefits! When I read something about her not being able to lay, I was fine with that, but it didnt occur to me that this would/could hurt/kill her. For the time being, I'm going to continue to help her heal and take it day by day.

Yep, the ACV is the good stuff, out of my fridge that we use. Even though she's 5.5 weeks, you recc. more calcium? I thought that wasn't suggested until they start to lay. I do give them shells with scrambled yolks once a week or so (my daughter and I prefer the whites, so no sense wasting them!) I'll continue to add that to the water, but lessen the amount, just as a booster.

I've heard wonderful things about stinging nettle, but never seen them- or at least don't think I have. I'll have to look into that!

I only use extra virgin olive oil in my cooking, so I've got that. How do you add it to their feed? Just drizzle it?

They have been in their coop since 2.5 weeks and have been brought on field trips outside since day 4. They currently free range in our back yard most of the day and are given treats of left over melon, berries, pasta, veggies, etc...as well as their chick food. They also have a bowl of chick grit available at all times.

BTW, love your signature. Thank you, again. Anything else you'd like to share or suggest, I'm happy to hear. Pretty sure my eyes have started bleeding due to the reading Ive done on chickens over the past 2 months. I'm really proud of myself and my kids. I want this to be a long, successful, happy situation, but we've had a rough start!

 

[chooks4life]

First of all, thank you for sharing your huge wealth of knowledge! SO very appreciated! If I leave anything out, please let me know- it's going to take quite awhile to digest all of this info!

You're most welcome.

When I say day 1, I actually mean day 3, when she arrived with her 5 flock mates. I have seen her poop normally many times (she really likes my shoulder

), however, some times she does appear to struggle to go to the bathroom. I don't know what started the white drip, but it appears her vent was pecked by a hen so severely that a chunk was taken off the top. Today marks days 7 of salt baths, antibiotic and antifungal treatments and she looks awesome! Nothing like my other barred rock, but if you saw her a week ago you'd be amazed.

Sounds good then, a temporary problem rather than from hatching onwards is most likely something they can overcome when it's constipation or similar. It's usually the ones who were never normal or very severely damaged quite young that are really hard cases. From the sounds of it your treatment is possibly all she'll need, if she's responding so well.

I don't mind a little extra work to keep her healthy and happy. I also don't mind if she can't lay eggs. We got our girls as pets, they just happen to have fantastic benefits! When I read something about her not being able to lay, I was fine with that, but it didnt occur to me that this would/could hurt/kill her. For the time being, I'm going to continue to help her heal and take it day by day.

Unfortunately just because a hen can't lay safely doesn't mean her production stops, but in emergency cases you can temporarily move her to somebody elses' place perhaps as moving house can stop them laying temporarily, but that's about it, there's not much else you can do. Issues like this that can affect the lower laying tract won't stop the upper reproductive tract doing what it's meant to. (Don't know if you knew already so just covering all bases). Even if it's going to kill her, when it's that time of the season and she's in enough health, the body starts production, there's no control over it or recognition of physical inability to actually lay the eggs she makes. Stopping hens laying is one of the more difficult things when dealing with special cases, but some vets offer hormone injections and even desexing to cure them.

If she's improved, hopefully she'll manage, I would reckon she will since from the sounds of it it's only been a short term problem and your remedy is working. If she'd been suffering this constipation for all her life though, that would be the biggest issue, but thankfully it sounds like that's not the case.

Yep, the ACV is the good stuff, out of my fridge that we use. Even though she's 5.5 weeks, you recc. more calcium? I thought that wasn't suggested until they start to lay. I do give them shells with scrambled yolks once a week or so (my daughter and I prefer the whites, so no sense wasting them!) I'll continue to add that to the water, but lessen the amount, just as a booster.

Once you've been on this forum longer, or if you haven't already noticed this, you'll most likely see a lot of people whose chickens even from hatching onwards are displaying advanced diseases of deficiency. In adults, you can guesstimate that it's either your diet being insufficient or health problems causing greater need or lack of ability to process the nutrients received, but in just-hatched chicks, the blame lies squarely with the parents of that chick, especially the mother, which really means the humans who kept that hen failed to give her enough nutrients and so she couldn't pass them onto her eggs and the resulting chicks. It makes no sense that a chick hatches and immediately needs supplementing with nutrients it shouldn't have begun to consume for another two days, yet that happens a lot on this forum, mostly with hatchery stock.

The problem is that many feeds labeled 'complete' are actually survival ration diets (I practically need to put this in my signature lol, too many don't know and suffer issues because of it) and these feeds often contain around 12 to 20-odd nutrients, whereas around 80 are needed for full health. 'Complete' in this sense just means they won't drop dead within the expected commercial-use lifespan allotted them. Home flocks are considered commercial in that way by the producers of these feeds as many folks also cull their hens at 2 years or so and replace, or raise meat birds according to commercial methods. Slightly more expensive feeds i.e. for breeders are generally better bets for pet birds who one hopes will have a long lifespan. Otherwise you can just supplement them on these 'complete' diets with extra nutrients and that ought to do it.

These 'complete' feeds cause deficiency diseases but due to how long some of these diseases take to show symptoms, often years down the track or in the next generation, they will go unnoticed in the average commercial or early-cull flock like layers or meat birds who seldom survive beyond 2 years.

Females begin laying down calcium reserves for future production basically from hatching onwards or soon after, so the advice to only supplement them at point of lay can leave some hens deficient as their needs are individual. If any chook has had any health issues, more calcium is in most cases required. I'd just offer it free choice, not rely on what's in their feed alone, in my experience most chooks will eat far more than they supposedly require to survive and lay, and a lot of people relying on 'complete' feeds alone have calcium deficiency issues like egg-binding among their flock. When toxicity or disease occurs in flocks, as it rather commonly does, having free choice extra calcium sources around can be the difference between life or death long before they show symptoms.

I've heard wonderful things about stinging nettle, but never seen them- or at least don't think I have. I'll have to look into that!

Incidentally it can make good barriers for gardens and places you don't want them to go, once they run over it a few times they'll realize it stings and avoid it. If you've got the clumping type that is but most types clump if they're getting enough sunlight where they are and being harvested regularly.

I only use extra virgin olive oil in my cooking, so I've got that. How do you add it to their feed? Just drizzle it?

Yes, just drizzle it on their feed, they won't mind if it's in puddles. When in need they will gladly drink it like water.

They have been in their coop since 2.5 weeks and have been brought on field trips outside since day 4. They currently free range in our back yard most of the day and are given treats of left over melon, berries, pasta, veggies, etc...as well as their chick food. They also have a bowl of chick grit available at all times.

Depending on what that chick grit is like, it may be all they need in terms of calcium. Grades vary quite widely.

BTW, love your signature. Thank you, again. Anything else you'd like to share or suggest, I'm happy to hear. Pretty sure my eyes have started bleeding due to the reading Ive done on chickens over the past 2 months. I'm really proud of myself and my kids. I want this to be a long, successful, happy situation, but we've had a rough start!

Thanks, hope it goes well for you. They're indispensable livestock for health conscious people in many cases, I got them for my family's sake and they have more than justified their keeping, and we also have pets among them too. I'm still learning about chooks myself of course, I don't think there's anyone no matter how expert or with however many decades of experience that knows it all, they are amazingly complicated.

Sometimes I don't suggest this to avoid making more work for people, but, personally I use kelp granules for my animals for a multi supplement, and raw garlic for disease control and hot herbs and spices for internal parasite control. That's simplifying the roles of all those ingredients but I've never seen them in comparative health on any other diet and I've experimented throughout the years of keeping them to find the best diet I can afford. I just give them a pinch of kelp per bird per day, no need for exact estimates, mixed in with their feed, and generally even a few cloves of garlic per bird per week should make a big difference in overall health as well, just freshly minced/crushed for most benefit as one of the most powerful natural antibiotics in garlic is Allicin which forms due to the enzymes in the juices interacting and dissipates within hours or a day or so, it varies.

Chooks love hot stuff but their worms don't, so tabasco sauce on wholemeal bread just before the full moon when the worms are most likely to have moved into the bowels to reproduce is quite effective. (Parasitic worms follow a very similar lunar cycle to marine worms and other species whose reproductive season times are coordinated to match the moon cycle. It's not an old wives' tale, it's scientifically documented in many worm species and those who use chemical wormers will often recommend you worm around the full moon so the worms are in the gut where they can be eliminated naturally, not riddled throughout the organs of the birds, where they can rot and cause infection if killed there).

However parasite worm cycles vary and having something regularly in their food to help worm at any stage is the best precaution, I use garlic and cayenne and other hot things. They love it and I've yet to have any issues with it and have been doing this for years, but some people worry that some birds may have sensitive guts so while I haven't seen it, it's a possibility to consider. My flock has had Marek's disease in some birds, inherited leucosis in others, and even birds with such health problems lived a lot longer than normal without showing any issues with the diet. I've never had coccidiosis which is due to the raw garlic from hatching onwards. I've raised many hundreds of birds over the years for eggs and meat, some of mine are pretty old now and still going strong. Some people who feed garlic reckon they can taste the garlic in the eggs. We never could but again just a possibility to be aware of.

Once you've been feeding garlic for long enough the sulfur levels permeate the tissues, blood, etc and make the host unpalatable to the parasites, but you do have to use it for around a month or so first and in sufficient quantity. I don't force feed them, it's free choice, but mixed with food. Raw and fresh is best for disease control but dried and granulated will do for sulfur level supplementation.

Stinging nettle is one of several nettle species but if it stings chances are it's the right one, though I wouldn't use a commercial cultivar if avoidable as they are often quite altered from ancestral state. Nettle is one of the few land plants comparable to kelp nutrition-wise but they both have slightly different effects, but both are good, though it can take up to a year to see the full effects as generally the animals will replace every cell they can once onto a better quality diet.

Also, if you don't soak their grains overnight, sprout them, or ferment them (your choice of either of the three but they're all very good) then they're not digesting much of what they eat. Soaking or fermenting or sprouting all increase bio-availability of nutrients by a large amount and it shows in their health.

Best wishes.

 

[JAZsMom]

Been meaning to write back, to fill in answers, ask more questions and say thank you, but, as my life tends to go, I sprained my ankle, my kid got suspended from camp for a week, threw a birthday party and have been a royal basket case!

Anyhoooo...
Audrey's bum is 98% cured

I haven't seen her poop, but Ive been stuck inside with my foot up for quite awhile now. She's as happy as her sisters and eating and growing the same, so she may just have a sensitive tummy...thank goodness! I'm scared for the day when I have the hens (2) and the chicks (6) start sleeping together again...one of our hens went after Audrey's bum again last week (even though it was mostly healed). Right now I've got the chicks sleeping in the coop and the hens in the run. Neither seem to be thrilled, but it is what it is. The hens free range on our 1/2 acre all day and the chicks free range at least 1/2 the day most days...otherwise theyre in the run.

Interesting info about their feed. I get them organic, gmo and soy free feed. The stuff I got them, which my friend recc. was chick food for 4 weeks, then grower? feed from 4-16 weeks followed by layer. I've heard all the companies are different, blah, blah, blah. I've also learned that everyone on here has opinions..many VERY strong opinions. One way to get me not to listen to you is by telling me THIS is the way to do, NOT that way. I may be a toddler that way, but I prefer to listen to many views, either find one I respect or combine what sounds best from many. (I suspect that's why Im trusting you...you didnt force, but educated, which is what I appreciate and respect! ) So, anyhow, we've been giving them their feed as well as a LOT of 'snacks/treats'. I plan to start fermenting in the next week, btw. BUT, I'd like to ask you about treats... how much is the right amount? between the 2 hens and 6 6 week old chicks I give them...hmmm...well, today they got a strawberry, 1/2 piece white bread, 10 grapes, about 1/4 cup organic yogurt, about 1/4-1/3 cup grilled chicken, 1/2 cup cooked quinoa, 1/2 slice of cheese...oh and the 2/3s apple my son didnt finish. It changes drastically per day. They only ate about 1/2 of it (first time for this yogurt and I suspect it wasnt a hit). Too much? I try to add protein and calcium to their diet via our scraps.

Oh, and I havent been adding ACV for the past week due to my ankle (there's just so much I can expect/ask of an amazing 8 year old). I plan to add it here and there in smaller doses, as it's good for everyone. As far as kelp. I will keep that in mind, and in 6 months or a year, if we're still friends, suggest it again..just not ready for that I'm all over feeding them garlic, but so many folks on here act like its the devil!. Personally, I think garlic flavored eggs would be fantastic, my kids probably wouldnt. I'd love to know the dosage you give them while theyre healthy...to keep them healthy, but not flavoring the eggs....I'd like to add it to the fermented feed..is that ok? Poured a bit of tabasco sauce on their egg yolk/shell treat the other day, my husband thought I was nuts! Also..maybe a stupid question- I/m extremely allergic to cayenne- I probably shouldnt give it my birds even if it's to keep them healthy, eh?

They wont touch their chick grit. It's in a bowl, spread out in the coop and the run. No interest. There's no way they dont get enough from free ranging...even if they go a day or 2 without.

I really hope to keep up this conversation. You've got such a wealth of knowledge....not to mention you seem pretty nice LOL Thank, once again for everything!!

 

[chooks4life]

Good to hear how things are going.

Yeah, some people here have strong opinions, lol... But at no point is anyone entitled to tell anyone else what to do. I reckon the more aggressive anyone is with their philosophy the less flexible they usually are in terms of being open to new or contradictory information, therefore they're generally not a good mentor or teacher or friend as far as conversations go. Just about everything we think we know is subject to change without warning.

When I first joined this forum, some chemical/conventional husbandry devotees used to join threads I had posted in just to verbally attack me for my herbal/alternative therapy suggestions. But I don't exclude or outright dismiss conventional treatments, everything has its place and if it's necessary to use conventional therapies then go for it, I got no objection and if necessary will use them myself even though I almost never have a need to do so, but, unfortunately, some others haven't got the same live and let live mentality there. Eh, water off a duck's back, lol. When I first got into poultry keeping people used to tell me things like 'you have to listen to me, I know, I'm 50 years old/I've kept chooks for this many decades' or some-such... Then later they'd be asking me why my chooks were in such great condition and how do I manage such and such a disease that their conventional therapies aren't managing... I have not found that any amount of experience actually makes anyone an expert, it's the amount of time spent learning that does that, and certain mindsets preclude learning. (I'm not trying to make myself out to be someone with all the answers, I am very much a learner, just in case anyone got the wrong impression.)

I understand kelp being a controversial issue, I've struggled to understand why it's so effective myself especially with the dearth of scientific studies on it. Some studies show it regulates the endocrine system and I've always found that to be true. Generationally they're better and better the longer you use it. But, as some say, why use kelp? They're land animals, they wouldn't eat that normally. (Actually kelp washes up on shores and many land animals including deer and elephants are known to make pilgrimages to the shores to obtain kelp and other seaweeds). But while we're feeding chooks a totally unnatural diet, why balk at kelp? At least, that's the answer to the natural exposure problem.

Still, I'm not trying to convert you to anything you don't feel is right. Everyone would get the best results from tailoring their husbandry to their flocks' needs as every individual and every flock is unique. There are multiple ways to get complete nutrition but too many folks rely on incorrectly labeled 'complete' feeds and then have problems due to the lie in the label.

I very much agree with your idea of hearing many opinions and choosing elements of each as you find it rings true or as you've seen it to be true, I do the same. The many experts I've learned from were never 100% correct in all things. Not one of them. I won't be either, I doubt anyone is. I'm not even an expert, lol.

I'd personally love to know how wild chickens obtain complete nutrients, I wish someone had that info available. I wonder what sort of plants they have available in their native lands.

Quote: I've never restricted treats, well, as far as finances go they're restricted by what we can afford to feed them. I think chooks in possession of their instincts and a good amount of life experience listen to their physiological needs and seek out the correct diets. There's an element of trial and error involved in that and only providing safe exposure so they can build experience and knowledge will help them get there. Permanently caged chooks will never be as instinctive and food-smart as those allowed to free range, so yours are likely to abstain from any excesses. Depends I guess on the quality of the treats, if they're getting a better diet via treats than what they can obtain from foraging they may try to rely on treats... If there's insufficient insect and plant life in their foraging areas they may be very keen on treats instead.

I never had any issues with birds devoting themselves to treats alone and not normal food, but it's not like treats were on-tap nonstop. I was selecting for some degree of independence from human feeding, since mine could free range huge grassy paddocks loaded with grasshoppers and a remnant patch of jungle, so any bird I saw relying totally on me for food was culled or rehomed. Some chooks, particularly meat breeds, can choose to remain at the feeders nonstop and those would likely be prime culprits for overdoing it on treats and choosing imbalanced diets to their detriment as their nutrient and growth demands are huge and their instinct insignificant.

I think your chooks will most likely develop smarts about what amount of each nutrient source they should take in and when, pretty much all other chooks learn this over time. It will possibly involve some mild and temporary diarrhea, some minor gut upsets, etc, but that's part of learning to choose wisely regarding feed choices for pretty much all domestic species.

How are they doing on the quinoa? I've considered using it and even growing it, I hope to grow most of their feeds. I bought some quinoa but the almost alkaloid-poison smell of it put me off... But perhaps that's a personal sensitivity and they won't have that. Certainly it should be fine once cooked. As far as I know it's also native to their ancestral lands.

Quote:
Yeah, some people think garlic can cause Heinz body anemia, but the actual studies supposedly supporting that theory mention only a chemical found in onions, not garlic, and affecting horses, dogs, and cats, no mention of chickens at all.

If you add garlic after fermenting it, it should be fine, some folks add it before fermenting it too, but the fermenting chook feed threads may offer you more info there. My chooks fermented their own feed, by burying it and letting it 'ripen' before eating it, I didn't deliberately do that for them since I didn't know at the time that fermenting their feed was a good thing. Conflicting info about what a 'safe' grain state was, before.

I find garlic ferments plain water very quickly and that can put them off, I expect it might ferment grains quite strongly too, so might be something to test or get a more experienced opinion on.

About cayenne, if you're allergic, then obviously it's best to be safe not sorry. The last thing you need is to give them cayenne, pick one up the next day and find it's used its cayenne contaminated beak to preen and thereby made its plumage dangerous to you.

Generally speaking I offer them garlic on a weekly basis, multiple times, but that's because I usually have up to 100 chooks at a time and need to cover all bases. With a smaller flock I'd probably give them a straight week or several, up to a month, of regularly available garlic to saturate them with sulfur, and then after that you could try giving them just a maintenance dose once a week. Their needs may vary, so you should probably just experiment and find what suits you and them.

I'm not sure yet how long it takes coccidiosis to build up to dangerous levels but if you're liming the ground and giving them raw garlic I expect they'd be fine with one dose a week of probably two cloves per bird. A maintenance dose for birds having garlic every day of the week would be about one clove per bird per day but that's because their needs vary and they will eat more at some times and less at others. It's generalized, obviously. Some garlic is weaker or stronger than other garlics, they're certainly not equal. And the time and money spent on it is certainly another factor that inhibits many.

I've read from one of my main tutors in chook keeping that Rue is superior to garlic for poultry use for all the same purposes, so if you're not sensitive to that and can get it growing near their cage walls, where they can pick free choice, that would solve a lot of the time/money issue. Couldn't get Rue to grow in the sub-tropics personally but want to try again sometime. But someone on this forum told me that they are sensitive to Rue, they get rashes from it, like from other blue-leaved plants. So, another possibility to be aware of there.

Best wishes with them. It's a great forum, please don't let anyone who's forgotten their manners put you off it.

 

[JAZsMom]

OH! I have no issue with kelp, it's just that my knowledge of it ends by listening to 'Spongebob Squarepants" cartoons. Similar to stinging nettle.

Thus, I need to spend far too much time researching, learning, etc. I dont even know where I'd get it.

They've only been given quinoa once thus far...as the rice portion of a veggie stir fry. I happen to love it, but it's not a favorite with my family, so I don't make it too often. My chickens didn't seem to love it, either, however, it had quite a bit soy sauce, so it may have been too salty for them. That's my favorite to eat it...replacing rice in dishes. It need some flavoring, as it's quite bland. I boil it in chicken broth vs. water and that makes a HUGE difference. I have one son who will only eat very bland foods, so I make it for him like that and then toss the rest into a stir fry.

Thanks for the snack and garlic info/opinions. I was afraid I was giving them too much, but, they don't always eat all of it, so I feel solid that they're not kids in a candy store...not over indulging.

Never even heard of Rue. Looks like I've got more research to do LOL

Thanks for everything!!!

 

[chooks4life]

You're welcome, best wishes with your studies. I've also got a lot more researching to do. It's nice to always be learning, I think too many people forget the original joys of acquiring knowledge once they go into school, if they get teachers who aren't too good at assisting or imparting that joy even when the curriculum gets harder.

Best wishes.