Coop Design Poll

[Ted Brown]

@WI chickens the only drawback is 20% reduction in size. Also materials efficiency is very minimal - one can buy 10' 2" x 4" stock and 4' x 8' sheets can be cut in half. The extra 20% in size would certainly be less than 20% increase in cost.

I did my 10' by 16' Woods using only rough cut lumber of 2" x 3" by 10' and 1" x 6" by 10'; very minimal waste. Cost today in my area would be around $2k.

I have fox (and many other predators) that are daytime hunters; also have mites from wild birds. Hence no free ranging. Clearly depends on one's local conditions. AI does worry me given explosion this year.

 

[WI chickens]

@WI chickens the only drawback is 20% reduction in size. Also materials efficiency is very minimal - one can buy 10' 2" x 4" stock and 4' x 8' sheets can be cut in half. The extra 20% in size would certainly be less than 20% increase in cost.

I did my 10' by 16' Woods using only rough cut lumber of 2" x 3" by 10' and 1" x 6" by 10'; very minimal waste. Cost today in my area would be around $2k.

I have fox (and many other predators) that are daytime hunters; also have mites from wild birds. Hence no free ranging. Clearly depends on one's local conditions. AI does worry me given explosion this year.

You are looking at it as a decrease in size from a 10'x16' coop. I am looking at it as an increase from an 8'x12' coop

I read your coop build. If I could buy lumber for the prices you did, I would have built that way as well. I don't have access to that lumber. I wish I did because I love the way yours turned out.

The predator issue is very regional as you mentioned. I just haven't had problem here. My main predators are raccoons and coyotes, and we don't have daytime issues with them, at least, up to this point. My hope is to have a large area fenced for my dogs next summer, at least a half acre and I will let the chickens live in the dog's area. I won't have to worry about any predator at that point.

 

[Poppy Putentake]

Thanks for all your replies. I am planning to build a 5' x 8' coop with a human-door in the middle of the long side (and a peaked roof, so full (human) headroom only in that middle).

I have been keeping my older hens, as they still lay a few eggs. My long-term plan has been to get 3 new chicks at a time whenever I want the flock size to increase, and to have 5-10 hens at any given time.

Some of my own thoughts on dimensions, etc.:

2. How much headroom needed above floor?

My current tractors have 24", which seems okay. Some recommendations are for as low as 17". Of course more works too.

3. Best dimensions for pop door (door for the chickens)?

My current ones are 17" high x 14" wide, but the birds can definitely get through a smaller opening. I've seen what looks like 9" w x 12" h.

4. Number, size, and placement of ventilation openings?

My thought is that some or all of these should be adjustable for bigger openings in summer, and placing them high up, higher than where the birds' heads will be, is best. (Like along the ridgeline.)

5. Feeders and waterers – inside or outside?

I'm currently using tractors with food and water inside, so spillage just goes on the ground. I'm planning on a fully enclosed coop but there will be times (like bad weather in winter) when the birds will be confined in it 24/7. I am thinking of either a designated "kitchen" area inside the coop for food and water, or else an adjoining covered, and maybe partially enclosed, run where the food and water would be. The basic problem is that I'd like them to have access to food and water all the time, but I'd also like their nighttime enclosure to be as secure as possible from predators. In winter I do have to replenish their unfrozen water anyway, so opening a door to a small run would not be much extra work.

Nesting boxes

1. Ideal dimensions for nesting boxes? (width x depth x height if box-shaped)? What about alternative shapes (buckets on sides, etc.)?

I've seen recommendations all over the place, from 9"h x 12"w x 12"d to 14" or even 16" cubes. My own current (built-in, wooden) ones are 12.5"h x 13"w x 15"d. A very experienced friend says hens like a nesting box to be like a "little dark cave", so I tend to think the depth should be slightly longer than the width. (And the height should not be too low, so as to have room for bedding.) I also have one *cardboard* nesting box, 12.5" h x 13"w x 15"d in the smaller tractor, which is actually the most popular one!

I also got ahold of a piece of black pipe 15" inside diameter x 24" deep. I closed off one end and set it up as a nesting box with bedding and a wooden egg (outside the tractors, but only one hen laid one egg in it once. Am thinking maybe it should have been closed off more at the open end to make that "little dark cave" effect the hens are supposed to like.

2. Ideal height of nesting boxes above floor? What about a second tier of nesting boxes above that one?

I currently have 3 regular boxes with the third one on top of the other two. The lower boxes collect more eggs, but a few hens seem to prefer the higher one. The bottom ones are flush with the upper (24" high) level of the tractor.
A neighbor uses 3 stacked levels of plastic milk crates, the bottom level flush with the coop floor. He says he gets no eggs at all from the lowest level.
I'm planing on 4 or 5 built-in nesting boxes for the new coop -- 2 stacked on top of 2 or 3. Am thinking of putting them 12" to 15" from floor of coop.

3. How many nesting boxes per hen? (How many for 4 hens? How many for 10? for 20?)
About 1 nesting box for each 4 hens makes sense *but* with a small number of hens, you are more likely to have almost all of them wanting to lay at the same time. You want to avoid having them looking for some alternative laying location that you don't know about. So, I'd say that for a small home flock, there should be more nesting boxes than that and, maybe the ideal formula could be something like one nesting box for 4 or 5 hens, plus one or two extra boxes.

So instead of 1 box for 4 hens, 3 for 10, and 5 for 20; it would be more like 2 or 3 for 4 hens, 4 or 5 for 10, and 6 for 20.

4. Best nesting box opening? (Circular? Rectangular?)) How large?

My current ones are rounded and about 8"w 8"high, a little narrower towards the top, to make them seem more enclosed. That's the opening for the hens, that opens into the coop. The opening on the other, exterior, side behind the egg-collecting access door is rectangular and larger. Ideally, the board/sill on the egg-collecting side of nesting boxes that holds in the bedding in should be hinged or removable to make cleaning the boxes out easier.

5. Interior versus exterior nesting boxes -- pros and cons.

I currently have interior ones accessed by an exterior door hinged on the bottom, a convenient arrangement I like.

I've looked at coops with exterior nesting boxes. In principle, this arrangement does not use more material because the boxes need to be enclosed either way, but in practice it does take more material to make them work structurally and to make them weathertight, plus the roofs/lids are often quite heavy. Another issue is that in the summer (even here in the north), interior nesting boxes might stay cooler inside since they don't have a ceiling directly exposed to the sun.

The main problem with the interior boxes is that they do use up some space in the coop and that the space underneath could become attractive to hens as a place to lay eggs. (I've considered making that underneath space into a storage cabinet (accessed from the outside) just to keep the birds out of it -- any other ideas?)

“Brooding” boxes and mini coops.

(A small coop besides the main one can be useful for quarantining birds, for rearing chicks, and for other purposes.)

Besides my main tractor, I have a 5' x 5' one (with a smaller "upstairs" space also) that has proven very good for rearing a small number of chicks with either a broody hen or by the "mama hating pad" method; and also occasionally for isolating a sick or injured bird.

I'm thinking that a similar one with a 4' x 4' footprint and two levels with 24" headroom would work and would use standard-sized materials efficiently. I'd make the "brooding box" inside that about 15"h x 20"w x 20"d". That would be in the "downstairs" part -- I have found that the brooding hen brings the chicks into the "upstairs" part after the first few days. (So, a ramp is definitely needed.) The chicks start getting too big for the "brooding box" soon after that anyway.

I think a mini-coop works best if it is completely separate from the main coop and can be moved to a different location, although I got the idea from this book, which actually recommends a two-room coop.

Your comments on the above are welcome.

 

[3KillerBs]

I am planning to build a 5' x 8' coop

Is there a particular reason that you're going for a 5-foot dimension, which wastes 3 feet of every standard 8-foot board instead of a 4-foot dimension to cut an 8-foot board in half or a 6-foot dimension to cut a 12-foot board in half?

but there will be times (like bad weather in winter) when the birds will be confined in it 24/7

While 40 square feet is *theoretically* enough for 10 hens, if your birds will be regularly confined to their coop for extended periods of time it would be advisable to at least double the space allowed.

an adjoining covered, and maybe partially enclosed, run where the food and water would be.

A covered run with windbreaks at chicken level (but still plenty of ventilation), is really essential in a cold climate unless your coop is VASTLY over-sized.

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

You aren't looking for a post, you're looking for a book After using a Woods fresh air coop, I would be very hesitant to use any other design if you are starting from scratch.

Woods fresh air coop for the win! I dont have one, but i use them when i sleep in the mountains.

 

[JoeCT]

Woods fresh air coop for the win! I dont have one, but i use them when i sleep in the mountains.

I see what you did there

 

[Poppy Putentake]

Thanks for all your replies, but I was looking for replies with actual numbers, and based on personal experience. I've read plenty of books and articles and have noted that the recommendations for various measurements (like distance of nesting boxes from floor) can be all over the place, and I was hoping to hear from people who who had already figured out what works for these measurements by trial and error, and perhaps even some dicussion of the advantagesand disadvantages of various measurements. It's all about the numbers!

 

[3KillerBs]

I've read plenty of books and articles and have noted that the recommendations for various measurements (like distance of nesting boxes from floor) can be all over the place,

That's because chickens are tough, adaptable livestock who are amenable to many different housing and management systems as long as their basic needs for space, feed, water, and sanitation are met.

Humans care more about the precise details of roosts, nests, and feeders -- to name a few examples -- than the chickens do.

For Neuchickestein my nests are set at my elbow height so that I don't have to bend down to collect eggs -- I have arthritis. The size of those nests was based on my DH's desire to make them easier to build -- putting 3 nests into a 4-foot-wide space so that he could easily mount them on the coop's support posts.

The roosts are above the nests, at my shoulder height, so I can easily lift a hen off the roost for a health inspection.

Feed and water is offered at the height of the birds' backs -- with a block for shorter birds to stand on if necessary.

As long as you're meeting the space needs for your flock and as long as your roosts are above the nests you can feel free to set things up for your own convenience.

 

[Poppy Putentake]

Thanks for your reply, 3KillerBs. I know what you mean about convenience for humans. My current chicken house has stacked nesting boxes (with an exterior access door hinged at the bottom) at about 2 feet and 3 feet above ground level, which happens to be a convenient height for collecting the eggs.

I am wondering about the space in the coop under the nesting boxes – if it is too low (like about 12" from floor), will it seem too much like a good place for them to lay eggs?

BTW, I was looking at the book Modern Fresh Air Poultry Houses (Woods, 1924, copy available here -- thank you Ted Brown) that has been mentioned so much in this forum. The author advocates the same thing for human habitations as for chicken coops (open windows or sleeping on a porch in mid-winter, and houses with enough ventilation to keep the same temperature indoors and out). He is talking about eastern Massachusetts, where I have lived and which is not quite the South Pole, but it does get cold there, occasionally below 0°F. .

In the early 20th century, when the germ theory of disease was still relatively new, the idea was still around that diseases were caused by stale, unhealthy, air. According to this “miasma” theory of disease, living near a swamp was a risk factor for malaria because of swamp vapors, not the germs spread by mosquitos; and people in slums were at risk for tuberculosis, not because in a crowded place they were more likely to encounter tuberculosis bacteria, but because of the stale city air. An older relative of mine was even subjected to the early 20th century treatment for tuberculosis -- not antibiotics, but sleeping outdoors in the winter. Note that in 1924, central heating (and indoor water pipes) were still new things that many or most houses did not have. All the emphasis then on the health benefits of fresh air may have been partly about making a virtue of necessity.

Woods seems to be promoting good idea -- ventilation to eliminate moisture and condensation -- partly for a mistaken reason -- the general vague idea that fresh air is healthful.

One other interesting thing -- in one of his designs, Woods has the nesting boxes up near the roof of the coop, above the roosts.. They have closable doors and the idea is to train the pullets to not sleep in the nests by shutting them in the evening. (Better get up early to open them again. )

 

[3KillerBs]

I am wondering about the space in the coop under the nesting boxes – if it is too low (like about 12" from floor), will it seem too much like a good place for them to lay eggs?

It could.

I've heard of people having that problem.

I remember reading in an Ag Science text that I picked up as a library discard that if you kept calves in a human house they'd die of respiratory problems from the stale air.