Cream Legbar Club -- WWIT

[lonnyandrinda]

It seems to me to get things up and running the next things we need to finalize are

A name
B logo
C website
D quarterly newsletter/meeting

in that order. We need a name and logo before the website and we need a website to have a place for all this information to be permanent and available. MnMPoultry, what are our options for websites? Are there good sources for us to set up a "free" one at least for now? You and cjwaldon are our two go-to people for website experience, although cjwaldon is busy at the moment so maybe if you could get us started.

Then in no particular order, I agree a regional division for the club is a good idea. And then there is the database itself. That is good to know there is SOMETHING out there to base it on. Again though I have no knowledge or experience in that area. Going on the honor and reputation system may make for a rocky start, but I agree it's probably the best way. So the database needs a place to be able to give feedback on a breeder, and a resolution system so breeders have a chance to work things out to protect their reputation. Another thought that came to me is we only enter chickens into the database of a certain age, given the high mortality rate of chicks. For example, breeding age and up. Thoughts on that?

Rinda

 

[ChicKat]

Rinda and Flying --

great input.

So, I'm hearing:

1. there needs to be a way to resolve any issues... "Is this REALLY a cream legbar", "How dare they try to sully my online database reputation"...I'm off to the Cream Legbar Club committe to have arbitration ---

2. Database must be bullet proof.... so no messing up. If someone wants to have their particular chicken data entered by someone else...they could probably be arranged through the club secretary once that person sent the correct info in, let's say an email. In general -- my experience with online databases is that if they are well set up--- you can't mess 'em up too badly...and if something is entered wrongly-- Let's say I meant to put M and I put F or the sex....it can be easily corrected.

Chickens should be a certain age before entering. Agreed that makes good sense. We also (due to that high mortality rate) probably need to have a field to identify disposition - death, retirement, sold - and to whom the bird was sold. I think that a database could also be a protection --- If there is a photo of a particular chicken in the database -- that could go a long way toward chicken ID -- (I really believe that...scientific back up may be there that chickens use facial recognition to identify each other -- kind of like humans.-- y'all may see it in a different way)

Will the database be useful? I'm a pretty strong advocate of the utility.

RachaelS has great db skills---and like CJWaldon is very busy. -- We do have a lot of talent in our interest group.


3.
OK... let's go with this -- Working name: American Cream Legbar Club Working Logo - PIck one from the samples developed by blackbirds13 in the SOP thread. Database TBD

members to date:

rye
rinda
red
flying
fay
garydean
me

c'mon the rest of you -- belly-up-to-the-bar and get your name on the list. :O) I know of some names that belong there...but I'm not going to be too presumptous (spelled that wrong too)...

How's about the first virtual meeting -- using something like 'come to meeting' (does that still exist?) or Google Groups or a chat room or something semi realtime - -Jan 15 2013 (that's a Tuesday.... we will syncronize our time zones and see what we can come up with)--- There are still a few weeks for that. Newsletter - to be done by the secretary pro-tem -- at/during/after the meeting. I will volunteer to draft an agenda for the first meeting and I will run it past some of you for input...... Laing - how's everything coming.

think of more problems that we will hit.

 

[stoneunhenged]

Sounds like a lot of progress is being made.

On the database, I recommend that you have a club registrar who is in charge of the database and ensures data integrity. I'd consider letting anyone register cream legbars for the next two years if they submit photos and demonstrate that the birds have no disqualifying traits from the breed standard. (There are only a few DQs in the standard: Side sprigs on comb. Eye pupil other than round and clearly defined. Crooked breast. Wry tail. Any bodily deformity.) After the two year open registration period is over I'd suggest that only the descendants of registered birds or newly imported birds (proof should be required of legal importation) that meet the standard would be registered.

Your club has a unique opportunity here: To track the pedigree of a popular chicken breed literally from the first generation of imports. What you are doing is groundbreaking and potentially very helpful to thousands of future legbar owners.

 

[babymakes6]

Add me in.

I am also one of those who feels it would be too time-consuming to have my chickens in a data-base.

 

[harriedhomemaker]

I'll join the club!

 

[faykokoWV]

I agree with all that the data base will be cumbersome, but if we can pull it off, it will be fantastic. I've heard talk of other breed groups wanting to do this and I think as more people take up chickens as a hobby it will be important. Having a "pedigree" will help keep egg prices up where they belong and help prevent issues in the future. I think it will be a lot easier to do this now when the breed is new than it would be to do it 5-10, heck even 2 years down the line.

Every time someone wants to buy hatching eggs from me for my other breeds, the first question they ask is " what lines are these" We all know that it doesn't really matter what lines they came from if breeding hasn't been kept to standard... but its a question people want answered. The data base will help ensure that people can't claim a line they don't have (hope that makes sense, kind of rambling there) and give breeders credit for their work.

 

[MnMPoultry]

I know some really awesome, free, no ads webhosts that I've used quite often. I can buy the domain as well, registered to the club, of course.

I can design and implement a database, but in no way shape or form do I want the task of tracking and verifying entries. Honestly, I think it's a ridiculous idea, and have from the jump, but I'm open to it. Seriously, other livestock, it works great due to the gestation periods, growth rates, limited offspring births, and if ever there arises a question on legit lineage, DNA testing exists for these types of livestock.

I literally have 100-200 chicks hatching each week, and will be hatching that many starting in the spring of just Cream Legbars... You want the task of verifying each chick to make sure they conform when they get older? I'm assuming we won't be able to submit to the database until at least 4 months of age for physical verification... What about someone that has hatched chicks from a few different breeders, didn't track and didn't mark, and then mixes up the lineage when they mark and submit? This thing is epic fail from concept to implementation, but if the club wants it, the club wants it. It's a huge waste of time and resources when you look at the big picture.

Do we have a chance to do something groundbreaking? Sure, but there is absolutely no way possible to keep it accurate and legit.

 

[MnMPoultry]

Having a "pedigree" will help keep egg prices up where they belong and help prevent issues in the future.

You mean so that sellers of hatching eggs can over-value their birds more than they already do? If that's the case, it looks like the breed is gonna head down the path of, "Oh, your birds aren't in the club database, they're not REALLY Cream Legbars."

On that note, I vote 100% against it instead of being open to the idea. This will just serve to give the club an elitist attitude in the long run.

"That bird isn't a standard color, it's not one of this breed..." Sound familiar?

 

[1muttsfan]

Sounds like a lot of progress is being made.

On the database, I recommend that you have a club registrar who is in charge of the database and ensures data integrity.  I'd consider letting anyone register cream legbars for the next two years if they submit photos and demonstrate that the birds have no disqualifying traits from the breed standard.  (There are only a few DQs in the standard: Side sprigs on comb. Eye pupil other than round and clearly defined. Crooked breast. Wry tail. Any bodily deformity.)  After the two year open registration period is over I'd suggest that only the descendants of registered birds or newly imported birds (proof should be required of legal importation) that meet the standard would be registered.

Many breeds of animals, when first being established, have a very limited number of individuals to use for a breeding population. Having an open registry at the beginning of your efforts is a very wise choice. Remember that even individuals that are not perfect specimens can make a genetic contribution that might prove valuable later, such as superior egg laying or egg quality, fertility, hardiness, and vigor. Once a larger population has been established you can start making pickier selections based on traits such as appearance. Attempting to select based only on appearance when you have a small population can easily lead to pretty birds that are substandard in other ways.

 

[MnMPoultry]

I didn't say anything about the 10-20 people contributing to the club and standards at the moment. Notice how I said, "in the long run," in that post?

What about my other points?

What if I take my "pure" Cream Legbar, breed it to another breed, and have a few chicks come out looking like the Cream Legbar Standard, which are only actually 50% Cream Legbar, and register them as coming from X Male and V Female? What if this chick is hiding a ton of recessive traits? Continue this, with people registering these crosses.... Now what? Who is going to fix the registry to purge these "pure legbar entries" from it, and then proceed to tell these people their birds aren't allowed in the registry now?

What about verifying someone's chicks who are hatching 100 a week?

Yes, you can design a registry, you can use a registry, but for poultry and the way poultry works, you can't have a long running functional registry.