Cream Legbar Club -- WWIT

[redchicken9]

I have been reading all of this debate on the database with much interest. I only have a lovely pair of Legbars right now, but woyld like to add more to my flock. The following is just my thoughts on the matter.
We raise and breed registered Quarter Horses and Paints. The fraud and forgery going on in both of these registries is unbelievable. Just because a certificate says "this is the horse you are looking at", doesn't make it true. My Dad's favorite line is "you can't ride a piece of paper", meaning that just because the animal is registered with a lovely certificate, it doesn't make him worth a dime if his papers aren't legit or if he is truly just a crappy horse with big names in his family tree. In my opinion, you would be better off compiling a voluntary database of breeders with descriptions and photos of their flocks. You could have sections for lineage, single bird accomplishments or what have you that the individuals would like to contribute. You could also have a review system or buyer feedback. I think you might be getting into a mess if you go into it with the attitude that a person's birds aren't worthy unless they are in the database. You are always going to get those with magnificent birds that won't bother to register them because they are just raising for the sheer enjoyment.
I think the main goal of the club should be education and promotion of the breed. Teaching people what to look for and breed to should be a priority. Worrying about regulating each and every bird is fruitless. You are always going to have unscrupulous "breeders" out to make a big profit no matter what you do and what type of animal you are raising. You are also going to have those that keep meticulous records and do everything they can to promote and improve the breed. It needs to be up to the buyers to do their homework and decide who they will get their birds from.

Ditto.

 

[babymakes6]

I have been reading all of this debate on the database with much interest. I only have a lovely pair of Legbars right now, but woyld like to add more to my flock. The following is just my thoughts on the matter.
We raise and breed registered Quarter Horses and Paints. The fraud and forgery going on in both of these registries is unbelievable. Just because a certificate says "this is the horse you are looking at", doesn't make it true. My Dad's favorite line is "you can't ride a piece of paper", meaning that just because the animal is registered with a lovely certificate, it doesn't make him worth a dime if his papers aren't legit or if he is truly just a crappy horse with big names in his family tree. In my opinion, you would be better off compiling a voluntary database of breeders with descriptions and photos of their flocks. You could have sections for lineage, single bird accomplishments or what have you that the individuals would like to contribute. You could also have a review system or buyer feedback. I think you might be getting into a mess if you go into it with the attitude that a person's birds aren't worthy unless they are in the database. You are always going to get those with magnificent birds that won't bother to register them because they are just raising for the sheer enjoyment.
I think the main goal of the club should be education and promotion of the breed. Teaching people what to look for and breed to should be a priority. Worrying about regulating each and every bird is fruitless. You are always going to have unscrupulous "breeders" out to make a big profit no matter what you do and what type of animal you are raising. You are also going to have those that keep meticulous records and do everything they can to promote and improve the breed. It needs to be up to the buyers to do their homework and decide who they will get their birds from.

Now THIS I can agree with! Well said!

 

[ChicKat]

Good insights everyone.

I feel that we are so close to getting a club started...and that there is a lot of energy going into a YES/NO on the database....Why don't we TABLE that item for the time being.

Let's form a club - and the database can become an item of club business.

Seems like it's wonderful to have everyone's views here---and I'm really surprised by some of them -- LOL..... So once there is a club we could move from the theoretical to the concrete with people who will be directly affected benefit/burden wise. If people are really going to be stake holders by working for the improvement of this breed...joining a club, supporting others and educating the USA about Cream Legbars--- they will probably want to be in the club -- and that business is kind of club bus. more than forum bus -- JMO.


MrsMoonCat - glad you are with us as another cream legbar owner, hoping you will also become a club member. Interesting about the paint and quarter horse registry. Think about thoroughbreds too--- OMG big, big business.

And for people who are thinking about genetics, I remember that the Morgan Horse breed started with just Justin Morgan's horse. And look at them now! Gorgeous animals.

For our registered cattle, I can't imagine investing in an animal without having a lot of knowledge about that animal.... I'l scan in and post a registration paper when the club gets around to that item of business......We trace the registry of our herd very carefully--- I guess there just isn't much incentive for fraud---but I could tell you a story... Part of it has to do with the focus on only one trait too---color. But that is way off the track for here.

There will always be fraud, and most of us fail to comprehend the mindset that leads there....but again fraud prevention would be a club issue IMO....

 

[Laingcroft]

After several weeks away, I'm back....

Still catching up on all that is new, but more important, I finally got around to drafting a preliminary Constitution and By-laws. It is too big to copy here but I did post it as a file on the yahoo group formed specifically for reviewing documents in support of our new group. Here is the link: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/USCreamLegbarclubworkgroup/?yguid=330562600

You will have to join the group to view it. I set it up that way to prevent spam bots. At the end of all this, we can delete the group if everyone agrees. Another group/forum/website, etc can be set up under the auspices of the Club. For right now though, it is a place to store/view/review documents for anyone interested.

If you want to make comments/revisions or suggestions, please prepare the complete document with changes highlighted and name it with the current revision version i.e. Draft No. 9

~ Tru

ETA: Forgot to mention the Const & Bylaws is in two formats, one for MS Word 10 and one compatible with MS Word 97-03. Select the version that works best for you. If you can't get either one to open and would prefer an email attachment, just send a PM with an email addy.

 

[babymakes6]

I joined!

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Awesome. I should have read here before I sent a message to some people about the club formation LOL! I will head over to the yahoo group and catch up. ChicKat are we ready to post that regional map or do we want to wait?

Rinda

ETA: I have volunteered to collect info for future club members: name, address, phone number, e-mail, stock source and quantity (if you currently own them), and your skills/abilities to help with the club. Please message this to me asap, your info will be kept confidential.

 

[Laingcroft]

Awesome. I should have read here before I sent a message to some people about the club formation LOL! I will head over to the yahoo group and catch up. ChicKat are we ready to post that regional map or do we want to wait?

Rinda

ETA: I have volunteered to collect info for future club members: name, address, phone number, e-mail, stock source and quantity (if you currently own them), and your skills/abilities to help with the club. Please message this to me asap, your info will be kept confidential.

Rinda....looks like this makes you the first club Secretary!

Another item to consider - do we want a breeder's directory? Print version? Online version? Fee to be listed or free to all members in good standing? This is separate and apart from a database. Of course, it also means we would need a club website, for which we need to collect dues in order to pay the bill. Can't collect dues without officers (Secretary/Treasurer or Treasurer separate officer?) and an account of some kind. Alot of things to consider when forming a club, especially when it has fiduciary responsibilities.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Wait, what?

LOL Just kidding.

 

[ChicKat]

Awesome. I should have read here before I sent a message to some people about the club formation LOL! I will head over to the yahoo group and catch up. ChicKat are we ready to post that regional map or do we want to wait?

Rinda

ETA: I have volunteered to collect info for future club members: name, address, phone number, e-mail, stock source and quantity (if you currently own them), and your skills/abilities to help with the club. Please message this to me asap, your info will be kept confidential.

Eggcellent!!

I sent PMs too before I came here...so I'm playing 'catch up'. Due to 'technical difficulties' - I will be lagging a bit behind everyone. Regions are going to be very useful in the future...and I think that the ones we have will make sense. But at the beginning we are going to be so small (fledgling club) that we can probably act as one conglomerate. So my position on that would be hold off on the regions until the club can discuss and approve. It isn't going to be a big deal IMO........

 

[ChicKat]

Rinda....looks like this makes you the first club Secretary!

Another item to consider - do we want a breeder's directory? Print version? Online version? Fee to be listed or free to all members in good standing? This is separate and apart from a database. Of course, it also means we would need a club website, for which we need to collect dues in order to pay the bill. Can't collect dues without officers (Secretary/Treasurer or Treasurer separate officer?) and an account of some kind. Alot of things to consider when forming a club, especially when it has fiduciary responsibilities.

True -

I took the liberty to send an email to PayPal to ask them if they have any provisions for accounts for clubs. I always feel very comfortable sending dues to PayPal or buying things and using PP.

If we could get the club treasury set up there.... People with the same outlook that I have could pay into paypal... And..it would protect all their info. Over the years as the account treasurer would change the account wouldn't have to be moved to different banks in different parts ot the USA...and think bank accounts and checks are getting pretty expensive now-a-days.

I recently joined an poultry organization that used PayPal to pay -- and I joined one that required a check.....so both ways work. If we could get the snags out of PayPal with multiple accessors or multiple "signatures" over a certain dollar amount the treasurer would be protected. Looking long term -- if the officer was for --- well that is for the group to discuss and amend or vote for when we are closer to a club--which I think is getting very close.

Thanks for the hard work.