Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[lonnyandrinda]

Peggy,

Thank you very much for listing your experience and advice. Very well thought out and well said. All of that is bring taken into consideration by the club. The 2/2/2/2 rule is news to me though. I may have just missed it.

Quick correction though. The goldish improper US birds cannot be called gold legbars. There already is a similar breed by that name, noncrested and lays a white egg. One proposed name for the gold variety is light brown legbar as they are more similar to a light brown leghorn.

The club has produced a set of altered images that follow one interpretation of the proposed SOP. I'm not at home right now but will post them later if curtis or anne don't beat me to it.

Rinda

 

[ChicKat]

I am a crested cream legbar owner/breeder "in waiting" so to speak and have read with tremendous interest the bulk of this thread.
Peggy Taylor
Rocky Springs Farm
Huntington, Texas

Peggy, Hi and welcome to the Cream Legbar Breed---so very glad to hear that you have an interest in Cream Legbars.... just looked on the map and I'm about 40miles from you...what a small world.

Thanks for the great insight, and I'm looking forward to the contribution that you will make to the Cream Legbar breed!

 

[rockyspringsfarm]

Are you in Woodville ? I was looking at the Club site and saw that the contact information was in Woodville.....the world gets to be a small place sometime ! I am looking forward to working with the Cream Legbars..... I do plan on joining the club soon.

Will be getting 10 pullets and 4 cockerels this week from a friend in Indiana. They are about 2 weeks old. His breeders came from GGF and were from the last line (not Rees) that GFF imported. His hens are gorgeous Creams. He never did anything half way so I'm sure he went for the best. Anyway, I feel sure I will have an excellent "starting point" to work from. I hope to be showing them this fall and winter along with my Marans and Eng Orpingtons. Right now temporary plans are to make the APA National Show in Knoxville if we can work it out...

One point I see is that the sure enough breeding male in the Cream Legbar may be as tough to come by as they are in the Wheaten and Black Copper Marans. There's lots of roosters out there but very few that truly meet my criteria as a breeder. We just use the one with the least faults. Really good hens aren't a too much of a problem with the Marans and that's what I see with the Cream Legbar. There are some gorgeous Cream girls out there but I haven't seen a picture of a male that I think really meets the "Cream" criteria. I'm not critizing.....I'm just very demanding in the male department. That male influences every offspring.....the hen only hers.

Have a great day.

 

[rockyspringsfarm]

Thank you so much for the clarification about the "Gold" issue....See I already learned something !!!! I assumed since it was referred to at the Dripping Springs Show that both were Gold birds that there was a distinct "Gold" variety....... I like the "Light Brown Legbar" name. That would appear to be very appropriate. I found mention of the 2/2/2/2 rule on the Club site under the preparation for APA acceptance. That was a good presentation....like I said your group has been working !.

I have some very dear long time friends at Haskell, OK ....just south of Tulsa.

 

[Localheronow]

I am a crested cream legbar owner/breeder "in waiting" so to speak and have read with tremendous interest the bulk of this thread. Having come through the fire of supporting, hauling, and showing 3 varieties of Marans toward their APA acceptance since 2011 I want to commend this group for the discussion and endeavor being made to get this breed APA approved. You have gone forward with a draft SOP with help from Mr. Leonard which is great. It's a long road to the finish but it is worth it......

I may have missed this in the discussion and if I did, I apologize, but the suggestion of looking at what the Marans group did is a sound one. We had to backtrack on a couple of things and re-group because we did not pay close enough attention to the APA "way of doing things". I had to throw out a whole year's breeding program and basically start over due to a change in what was proper for the BCM male in color..... It appears to me, and this is simply my personal opinion (worth what it's worth), that you have One breed (Legbar) but Three varieties(Cream, Gold, Silver with distanct differences such as egg color and plumage color)...very similar to the Marans. We drafted a General SOP which covers the Marans type, structure, DQ's, Faults, etc that applies to every variety of Marans. Then as each variety came closer to being ready for a qualifying meet we drafted a standard for that color variety....We now have 3 varieties APA approved and two more gaining ground. I said all that to say this.....Draft a General SOP (I think you already have) that covers the Legbar breed....then pick a color Cream, Gold or Silver. Push that variety toward acceptance while still working on the other varieties. We were showing Wheaten Marans the whole time we were pushing the Black Coppers for acceptance. I had the BV Wheaten at the Black Copper qualifying meet in Newnan, GA in 2011 along with the Black Copper hen that was judged Best of Breed in that qualifying meet. Then we were showing White Marans while pushing the Wheatens for acceptance.....now we have the Whites accepted as well....

I'm sure the DQ's at the Dripping Springs Show were a disappointment......EDUCATION is the key. I have a great deal of respect for judge Pat Malone. have shown under him many times. He's always been willing to discuss with me any decision he made on one of my birds....It has to be hard for the best of judges to be very familiar with such a new breed. But his advise to show even though the birds may not be where you want them is sound. You've got to make that "years of showing" thing with APA. Also, and I have not seen it mentioned but APA has a 2/2/2/2 rule.......2 cocks, 2 cockerels, 2 hens, 2 pullets at a show for it to be counted......The Marans group communicated with each other to see who was going where and what they had so that we could make that 2/2/2/2 rule. Legbar breeders need to do the same....working together is the key to getting this done. Do the paperwork, cross your t's, and dot your i's.....that will go far with APA.

Having probably worn out my welcome by now......I would like to say that I intend to pursue the Crested Cream Legbar with the same determination in the breeding pen and at the shows that I have with the Marans.

I can readily see the difference between the Cream and Gold hens but could someone take pity on me and post a picture of what the ideal Cream male should be as close to as possible. Or, direct me to a site with one on it......I tend to operate better with a visual experience. Thank you for your tolerance of my long post....

Peggy Taylor
Rocky Springs Farm
Huntington, Texas

Here is my bird this is not a prefect cockerel but close I hope

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Ha peggy I live about 15 minutes from Haskell! It is a small world that's for sure!

 

[rockyspringsfarm]

Hey Localheronow:

VERY NICE !!! Head and shoulders above 99 per cent of what I have been seeing....He definitely leans to the Silver side and I love that abcense
of red on those wings......I think that could be a problem if people aren't careful in breeding.....The only thing that I might like to see different......here goes that picky side of me.....is a little more cream sheen on the hackles and sickles. Otherwise, he''s just pretty good ! Congratulations.....

Where are you located ? I will have to keep this boy in mind for future reference. May need to get a cockerel off him a little later on......

Thank you so much for taking the time to post his picture......

 

[Localheronow]

Hey Localheronow:

VERY NICE !!! Head and shoulders above 99 per cent of what I have been seeing....He definitely leans to the Silver side and I love that abcense
of red on those wings......I think that could be a problem if people aren't careful in breeding.....The only thing that I might like to see different......here goes that picky side of me.....is a little more cream sheen on the hackles and sickles. Otherwise, he''s just pretty good ! Congratulations.....

Where are you located ? I will have to keep this boy in mind for future reference. May need to get a cockerel off him a little later on......

Thank you so much for taking the time to post his picture......

Fort Worth, Texas and a member of the cream legbar club

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Here are the images. They are owned by the club. If you share them please include the club website for reference, www.creamlegbarclub.org. They are not perfect, but they are also not real- just one person's interpretation of the proposed SOP.

 

[dretd]

I am a crested cream legbar owner/breeder "in waiting" so to speak and have read with tremendous interest the bulk of this thread. Having come through the fire of supporting, hauling, and showing 3 varieties of Marans toward their APA acceptance since 2011 I want to commend this group for the discussion and endeavor being made to get this breed APA approved. You have gone forward with a draft SOP with help from Mr. Leonard which is great. It's a long road to the finish but it is worth it......
....

I'm sure the DQ's at the Dripping Springs Show were a disappointment......EDUCATION is the key. I have a great deal of respect for judge Pat Malone. have shown under him many times. He's always been willing to discuss with me any decision he made on one of my birds....It has to be hard for the best of judges to be very familiar with such a new breed. But his advise to show even though the birds may not be where you want them is sound. You've got to make that "years of showing" thing with APA. Also, and I have not seen it mentioned but APA has a 2/2/2/2 rule.......2 cocks, 2 cockerels, 2 hens, 2 pullets at a show for it to be counted......The Marans group communicated with each other to see who was going where and what they had so that we could make that 2/2/2/2 rule. Legbar breeders need to do the same....working together is the key to getting this done. Do the paperwork, cross your t's, and dot your i's.....that will go far with APA.

Hello rockyspringsfarm!

Your experience with the Marans will be most welcomed as we move forward through the process of getting the Cream Legbars accepted. Good luck with your breeding program and I will look forward to reading your posts on your progress!