Cream Legbars

[chicken pickin]

I have had many male cl over the years. I always felt stuck when i saw the males in the incubator. I know some people very likely kill male chicks at hatch, which is ok for some but not somethjng i would personally do. I find cl males have a decent amount of meat, and have always processed mine around 14-16 weeks and while a bit smaller still had enough meat in my opinion to continue to raise my cl male to put in the freezer.

Another option you can look into is donating your male chicks to wildlife rehabilitation centers, they will use the chicks to feed the wild birds, like hawks, eagles, owls etc. Dont worry they arent feed while still alive. Another possible option is reptile breeders, they can maybe use the chicks to feed certain reptiles.

Not options for everyone, but still good options in my opinion.

 

[ChicKat]

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Im just looking for thoughts out there.

Not a great topic i know.
thanks for your time.

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Not options for everyone, but still good options in my opinion.

I use the males to eat when they are about even 10-12 weeks old - 14wks maybe. I don't do a full scale - pluck, gut, etc. style processing, I harvest the legs-thighs and breasts, since that is where most of the meat is, and I discard the skin, and everything else. It isn't so time-consuming that I expect a family-sized meal or a Thanksgiving dinner. I think that there is quite a LOT of meat on these guys even that young. It can be done fairly quickly

It is a tough and an interesting topic for people who want to be sustainable. chicken pickin has some really good ideas for their use -especially if there were lots. excess males of any breed are a problem.

Here are two things I don't understand:

#1. when people say they "don't like autosexing": they don't want to know a chick is male, because they can then not unload them on their chick-buying customers that don't want males....

Back in the day -- giving the best customer service was considered really important. If someone wanted only, was restricted in their CC&Rs etc, or other legal reasons, or for safety of their kids didn't want males -you would know for certain that you were providing them the best customer service.

#2. MarshallPrime - not picking on you, because you can shed light on it perhaps, but if you had non-autosexing chicks, in the long run wouldn't it be a bit more costly to raise them that three weeks or so to the point you are certain of the sex of the chick - than to have a (hopefully humane) disposal of males earlier - because the fate would be the same for excess males in that they would have to go. Again to chicken pickin's good idea - perhaps a pet-store would have reptile owners, or better still your local zoo would take them off your hands periodically.

I think that MarshallPrime brings up a good point and that the 'culling' side is one that nobody wishes to talk about. Part of breeding is hard selection.

 

[duluthralphie]

I use the males to eat when they are about even 10-12 weeks old - 14wks maybe. I don't do a full scale - pluck, gut, etc. style processing, I harvest the legs-thighs and breasts, since that is where most of the meat is, and I discard the skin, and everything else. It isn't so time-consuming that I expect a family-sized meal or a Thanksgiving dinner. I think that there is quite a LOT of meat on these guys even that young. It can be done fairly quickly

It is a tough and an interesting topic for people who want to be sustainable. chicken pickin has some really good ideas for their use -especially if there were lots. excess males of any breed are a problem.

Here are two things I don't understand:

#1. when people say they "don't like autosexing": they don't want to know a chick is male, because they can then not unload them on their chick-buying customers that don't want males....

Back in the day -- giving the best customer service was considered really important. If someone wanted only, was restricted in their CC&Rs etc, or other legal reasons, or for safety of their kids didn't want males -you would know for certain that you were providing them the best customer service.
You are partially right, however, If I did not have to feed or kill the male chicks I could sell the females at half the price I charge or less. Customer service and over charging are not the same thing. I can give great customer service, either way. But when I have to kill male chicks or raise them, the customer has to pay more.
#2. MarshallPrime - not picking on you, because you can shed light on it perhaps, but if you had non-autosexing chicks, in the long run wouldn't it be a bit more costly to raise them that three weeks or so to the point you are certain of the sex of the chick - than to have a (hopefully humane) disposal of males earlier - because the fate would be the same for excess males in that they would have to go. Again to chicken pickin's good idea - perhaps a pet-store would have reptile owners, or better still your local zoo would take them off your hands periodically. I think this is a dream world scenario, most places just twist their necks or hit them in the head. I find selling a male to someone so a snake can eat it slowly to be anything but humane.

I think that MarshallPrime brings up a good point and that the 'culling' side is one that nobody wishes to talk about. Part of breeding is hard selection.

 

[jerryse]

I have got to say I no longer care about auto sexing either . I thought it would be a good selling point . It is not . Customers just do not care enough to pay more . I can not get higher prices for Legbars in my area . I even bred up project cuckoo colors for sex links in Ameraucana so I could sell sex links . No advantage . I always see posts about what gender is this . They only want to talk about it . They do not want a solution . I can sex most chicks of any breed by 4 weeks . So selling started chicks to people who only want pullets is not that hard . I could not sell Legbar eggs on BYC or eBay for more than $15 to $20 and that is if they even sold . I can sell Ameraucana for that much . $40 for a dozen Lavender cuckoo .

 

[sol2go]

Hello all, So i have a question that might not get the best responses...but im going to ask anyway.

First of all, I love my cream crested legbars. They are great layers of a beautiful large blue egg, they are sweet, they are beautiful. I love the autosexing trait. I started with 4 a year ago and added a couple but have hatched some out and gotten LOTS of males. Lost a couple to eggbound and one pullet in a crazy bad luck situation. Ive sold some but the males are REALLY hard to move and Ive even had to give some away just to get rid of them. There isnt a lot of meat on this breed i have found so not really worth feeding all that time and then butchering them. I have sold a few and now have 2 great males and 4 females.

I just hatched in the incubator and out of 14 eggs got 7 females and 4 males...my best female male ratio ever in a hatch.

Here is my problem and my actual question.

What do u do with an auto sexing breed when they hatch and you KNOW which are the males that are going to be difficult to get rid of? A lot of people use the word CULL and im not exactly sure what they mean by that....just separate, sell, give away....or...here is the sad and part im really asking about...destroy them. I would hate to do it BUT because of all my statements above it sounds like a decent option. I have no problem killing them to eat them but when they are chicks....i dont know.

Im just looking for thoughts out there.

Not a great topic i know.
thanks for your time.

Thanks for enjoying the Cream Legbars and caring enough to consider what it means to be a breeder.
I've read the range of answers, which I think are a fair sample of different breeding opinions/systems.

I would add my consideration is focused on breed development. Because I am not trying to offset expenses, I don't need to produce a lot of females and I do grow out the boys until I run out of room. Experienced and reputable breeders have suggested keeping the best cockerels, plus a few that show potential, for at least a year to see how they develop.

I like the males as much as the females, and have had to come to terms with the idea that as breeders of any chicken breed, we have disrupted the natural range of chicken habits and habitats and are basically stuck facing the odds. In turn, I choose to have very focused hatches to reduce the number of "culls" - those I can keep but not use as breeders, those that can be rehomed, as well as those that become food. It's an internal struggle I have every time I set up the incubator. And I love hatching.

I'll never tire of watching the little chicks hatch and develop. It is part of the intrigue of breeding towards an SOP and assessing what I am trying to develop in my line. While the auto sexing traits have commercial advantages to separate genders and reduce grow-out expenses (which likely means killing the cockerels at birth), as a breeder I grow out both cockerels and pullets as an opportunity to observe gender specific characteristics; sort of a two-for-one in the breed. Best wishes finding the right balance for your flock.

 

[rottlady]

in my area there is a raptor center (VINs) who will take them to feed the raptors as chicks

 

[duluthralphie]

Thanks for enjoying the Cream Legbars and caring enough to consider what it means to be a breeder.
I've read the range of answers, which I think are a fair sample of different breeding opinions/systems.

I would add my consideration is focused on breed development. Because I am not trying to offset expenses, I don't need to produce a lot of females and I do grow out the boys until I run out of room. Experienced and reputable breeders have suggested keeping the best cockerels, plus a few that show potential, for at least a year to see how they develop.

I like the males as much as the females, and have had to come to terms with the idea that as breeders of any chicken breed, we have disrupted the natural range of chicken habits and habitats and are basically stuck facing the odds. In turn, I choose to have very focused hatches to reduce the number of "culls" - those I can keep but not use as breeders, those that can be rehomed, as well as those that become food. It's an internal struggle I have every time I set up the incubator. And I love hatching.

I'll never tire of watching the little chicks hatch and develop. It is part of the intrigue of breeding towards an SOP and assessing what I am trying to develop in my line. While the auto sexing traits have commercial advantages to separate genders and reduce grow-out expenses (which likely means killing the cockerels at birth), as a breeder I grow out both cockerels and pullets as an opportunity to observe gender specific characteristics; sort of a two-for-one in the breed. Best wishes finding the right balance for your flock.

Completely off the topic, I am just wondering how many or what percentage of the roosters do you think make show quality birds? I raise all of mine out too, or try to, until they can go to the freezer. We call it eating skinny chicken instead of the Broilers. ( I do raise a few of those too).

I find that very few make Breeders, but I cull them pretty hard. I only need a couple roosters. I have a pen I am forced to raise the roosters in because if I free range them the hens get all beaten up by the boys.

 

[rottlady]

I started with 4 pullets and 4 cockerels
From those I placed 1 pullet and 3 cockerels because they did not fit what I wanted

Not a good numbers stat but what I have to offer

( I also started with 8 Delawares and selected down to 2 and 12 Barnevelders and selected down to 3 )

 

[chicken pickin]

in my area there is a raptor center (VINs) who will take them to feed the raptors as chicks

Exactly! This is the exact facility i was thinking of when i posted a few posts back about donating male chicks. I have been in contact with them in the past and they told me the entire process the chicks would go through.

And to duluthralpie - I absolutely do not believe this is a dream world scenerio. Many animal facilities are in need of food donations and reguardless of how humanly they are killed (which im sure at most facilites that work with animals they do things as humanely as possible) i would much rather my male chicks go to them and serve a purpose and not just be killed as a day old and be disposed of.

 

[sol2go]

Completely off the topic, I am just wondering how many or what percentage of the roosters do you think make show quality birds? I raise all of mine out too, or try to, until they can go to the freezer. We call it eating skinny chicken instead of the Broilers. ( I do raise a few of those too).

I find that very few make Breeders, but I cull them pretty hard. I only need a couple roosters. I have a pen I am forced to raise the roosters in because if I free range them the hens get all beaten up by the boys.

I definitely don't have that answer, and I suspect people with established show lines have a better gauge for that (some show lines have been around for decades). I wouldn't mind asking around, or maybe someone here would like to share their experience.

I also have a rooster run and was able to keep some guys together for a couple of years and add in young ones, but it got too noisy so I have to make some difficult decisions on breeding groups when the cockerels are about 4 months and again at 7 months...

For me, I enjoy the overall breed characteristics, and find that what I focus on now is different than it was 4 years ago...although I have also come full circle and revisited some things in a new light. For example I still have my first CL rooster, which I regretted at one point as I didn't have the space and he didn't seem "perfect". Now I enjoy him just as he is and have learned how he not only helps to keep my breeding stock diverse, but he also has specific characteristics that are helpful with targeted groupings. To borrow someone else's words, the Cream Legbars are such a "complex" breed that there is always something interesting to work on for stock or for show.

While shows don't require a blue egg to prove that they are Cream Legbars, it's always fun when the hens put them on "display". I consider egg color, size, and laying frequency when I am hatching, among all the other variables. I have a few hens that aren't molting yet, so their eggs go into the late season hatch.

I've just started paying attention to body shape of the pullets, and wonder how anyone else would characterize their good layers? Heavy set or lighter bodies? Wedge shape or brick shape looking at their shape from above?

I've heard that a specialty egg producer in California thought his CL laying flock got too fat in their first year for commercial production purposes and decided to reduce their numbers. I haven't spoken with him, but I wondered how long he thought they would be good producers, since I'm told a typical commercial production flock is culled at about 14 months (before they molt). My CL hens seem to be consistent layers through the 3rd year, still laying although less frequently at 4 years (not a scientific sampling...). For those who are trying to make a living with chickens, I'm sure there are significant breeding considerations.