CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[3riverschick]

Poultry world annual and year book. no.12 1922.
Dorkings Past and Present
By Joseph Pettipher
http://tinyurl.com/njtemhk
Index of aticles and illustrations.
http://tinyurl.com/oop66rx
There are some really nice pics of Dorkings in this yearbook.
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Poultry world annual and year book. no.6 1913-14.
http://tinyurl.com/pvtprta
Red Dorkings, by Jos. Pettipher Article) Page 52
Illustrations:
Dorkings, Dark, Cockerel 116, 123
Silver-Grey, Hen 135
Red Sussex, by J. Ade (article) Page 55
(Ade was noted breeder of Red Sussex who deveoped and
perfected the Brown Sussex from the Red Sussex)
Illustrations:
Sussex, Light, Cockerel Page 131
Red, Cockerel Page 56
Speckled, Hen Page Page 113
Speckled, Cockerel Page 133
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The Feathered world year book and poultry keepers' ... 1910.
http://tinyurl.com/okv48px
Dorkings 64-68
ILLUSTRATIONS.
Dorking, Silver-Grey, Cockerel 65
Dorking, Coloured, Cockerel ... 67
Sussex By F. V. Gravely... 137-140
ILLUSTRATIONS.
Sussex, Light Cockerel ... 139
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The Feathered world year book and poultry keepers' ... 1911.
http://tinyurl.com/ntra2rq
Dorkings in 1910 By C. E. Richardson. , 123-124
The Red Dorkings By R. B. Fitch Hogg. 124-125
About White Dorkings By Joseph Pettipher. 125-127
ILLUSTRATIONS.
Dorking, Silver Grey Cockerel 123
Dorking, White 127
Sussex By F. V. Gravely. 189-191
ILLUSTRATIONS.
Sussex, Light Pullet 189
Sussex, Speckled Cockerel 190
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The Feathered world year book and poultry keepers' ... 1912.
http://tinyurl.com/qbawfc6
Dorkings . By Clem Watson . 127
ILLUSTRATIONS
Dorking, Silver Grey Cockerel.. 127
Sussex By Clem Watson . 202
ILLUSTRATIONS
Sussex, Light Pullet 203
Sussex, Speckled Pullet 205
Sussex, Red Cockerel 204
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The Feathered world year book and poultry keepers' ... 1914.
http://tinyurl.com/oqptzj3
Dorkings By Clem Watson . 152
ILLUSTRATIONS
Dorking, Dark Cock 158
Sussex By E. T. B. Coppard . 272
ILLUSTRATIONS
Sussex, Brown Cockerel 274
Sussex, Light Cockerel 275
Sussex, Speckled Cock 273
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The Feathered World Year Book and Poultry Keepers' ... 1915.
http://tinyurl.com/qhkrkao
Sussex By E. T. B. Coppard . 226,
SUSSEX NOTES . By Clem Watson . 230
ILLUSTRATIONS
Sussex, Red Pair 227
Sussex, Light Cockerel 232
Sussex, Light 229
Sussex, Speckled 231
Dorkings and Sussex in America.
By F. L. Platt, Swanton, Ohio, U.S.A. 230
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The Feathered World Year Book and Poultry Keepers' ... 1917.
http://tinyurl.com/p7wrxqr
Sussex. By Clem Watson.164
ILLUSTRATIONS
Sussex, Light Cook 167
Sussex, Speckled 165
Dorking also in this volume.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

"how many things one has to look for"
is there a first thing to look for "absolutely" most important dominate trait ,,, color seems to be last in most of the treads that I have read.

The answer to that question depends entirely on the birds you have, their quality in comparison to the SOP and what your goals for them are. If you are able to obtain some show champions, your goals for type the following breeding season are going to be entirely different than the goals you'd have if you simply obtained a breeding pair/trio.

 

[MagicChicken]

he also said what walt just did.. if you are novice, you should not play with complicated colors and patterns, play in the basic colors of white , black and even some buff, but not patterns..you need to get your shapes or build the house in order first..or a well established color.

I chose a black breed to start with because I thought it would be easier. Turns out even black is not so simple. But it is way easier than those other fancy colors and patterns!

Aveca said: "... the males in the bird world are your color producers, your females make the shapes..in the wild the most colorful males will most often win and pass on better color to offspring.."

I have heard this time and again when reading the writings of the old poultry men. Yet modern genetics geniuses say it's complete nonsense. How can it be nonsense if the best breeders of the times believe it? I mean that ones that actually breed chickens and successfully? Science is a wonderful thing but sometimes we have to step back and admit that because a formula or something "proves" a thing to be true, it might still not be accurate.

Gene expression is affected by much more than actual gene combinations. Scientists haven't figured it all out yet. Never will. The more we learn the more we discover how much we don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if the female has a big effect on genes affecting type because of the chemistry in the egg itself. The supporting environment for the developing embryo comes from the female. It is possible that systems in the egg influence the expression of shape-related genes more than color genes. Who knows?

Leg placement and leg spacing is very important.........it affects the overall look of the bird and it's balance. By balance I mean the overall impression of the bird.

One of the things I like to say when someone asks how I get my runner ducks to have such good station is: "I just put the legs as far back on the bird as I can and they have to stand upright". When you see chickens leaning forward or backward it is usually because the legs are in the wrong place.

Thanks, Walt, that explains a lot. My largest, longest-backed Black Javas tend to carry their backs horizontally or even sloping up toward the rear. Their legs are dead center. The ones with properly declining backs tend to be smaller, shorter-backed and pinch-tailed. Someone told me to select longer-backed birds with their legs set farther back to correct the slope issue. That suggestion makes sense now. If I can get the legs back farther the birds will have to lift their front ends up for balance and voila, the back will slope down toward the rear. Now all I need is some long-backed birds with legs farther back to pick from... good luck to me on that one. At least I have an idea what to look for now!

I really like these birds. They have a lot of character. And someday they might look more like the standard. For now they have to survive the 114+ degree heat, which has arrived with double digit humidity. The humidity makes hosing down the runs a little less effective at cooling. The birds are doing well so far. Got 7 eggs out of 8 pullets today. They are not quite six months old. Mr. Urch's Black Javas rock!

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
You SHOULD post the SG's from Ideal. We're here to learn. Maybe they are better (or worse) than you think!

The position of the legs on a chicken is very important. They should be well spaced and not close together (most breeds). The leg placement affects the stance/station of the bird and the width between the legs shows the capacity for internal organs.....or the lack of that capacity in birds with legs that are close together. You see legs close together in a lot of hatchery birds. Once you notice this it will be something that you always notice. You will be surprised by how many birds with that are around that have legs almost touching. The next thing that happens with these birds is that they become knock kneed. Two very famous breeders in the west ended up with knock kneed birds because for some reason they didn't notice how close the legs of the birds in their line were getting over the years. This happens.......some call it barn blindness. I suppose they were too close to the problem or were looking at other features of the bird.

Leg placement and leg spacing is very important.........it affects the overall look of the bird and it's balance. By balance I mean the overall impression of the bird.

One of the things I like to say when someone asks how I get my runner ducks to have such good station is: "I just put the legs as far back on the bird as I can and they have to stand upright". When you see chickens leaning forward or backward it is usually because the legs are in the wrong place.

I just ran across this when I was cleaning up some chicken stuff.




I had my license for a while when I judged this.....kind of makes me feel old.

Walt

Walt-- for what it's worth, I think of you as wise and learned with 25+ years of accumulated knowledge.

I'm doing the same, accidentally, MagicChicken. My breed of choice is also black, and yes, you need to get that lovely green sheen on it, but another good thing about a black bird, is that it's always in silhouette, making them a lot easier to see for type

The 1980's are the modern era for me... but I guess not, eh? LOL. It's when music started going downhill, ROFL (not that great music wasn't made, just seemed few and far between)

Sorry for creating a post that'll need deletion, LOL, but while I'm at it, so love dorkings and so glad we're here at last also. Thanks everyone for great pictures and insights!

haahaa-- by the mid 80's music took a dive for me. At least rock and roll was gone; but country still rocked.

 

[Robert Blosl]

There was some great chicken people at that show. Forest Bufford and I wonder if R Paul Web was there with his dark Cornish bantams? bob

 

[capayvalleychick]

Dorkings are often said in the old literature to be tender and to lack hardiness and to be susceptible to wetness--rubbish! All of these things are strain based and dependent on the immediate breeding of the birds. Our birds are tough, flat out tough, but this is because of selection in a trying environment.

Here, on the other side of this country, our Silver Grays are enduring another summer of 100 + temperatures and taking it in stride. We are in the fourth day of a heat wave, with this as our forecast:


They are uncomfortable, but shade and some wet ground keeps them from overheating. The hens are continuing to lay eggs as usual. I've always been impressed with the breed's heat tolerance.

 

[pysankigirl]

I take it the heat tolerance is because of the larger combs?
So the rosecombs wouldn't have as good tolerance of heat, a tradeoff for their cold tolerance?

 

[fowlman01]

There was some great chicken people at that show. Forest Bufford and I wonder if R Paul Web was there with his dark Cornish bantams? bob

I judged Forrests birds at a Langshan national in AZ and he liked my judging, so he got me the Sooner Classic job. He didn't win best Langshan at either show but the birds that did probably came from him. He was very gracious about not winning.

Walt

 

[CFellows]

Up for discussion: Silver Gray Cockerel.

I know he is no ware near show quality, but I thought he might be good for conversation. I know nothing, but I think his tail set is too high, comb has too many points, and overall stance is too upright. I think his legs are too long, and he could use some more size, but on the bright side he has red earlobes.

I am curious to see what every one says, and like I said before I know nothing, I just got Dorkings this year.

 

[cluck-cluck]

Quote: My girls are laying much smaller eggs. My first summer with chickens, and I was surprised. I kind of expected fewer eggs, but they're all still laying, just way smaller eggs! Thank goodness it's supposed to cool off tomorrow

I take it the heat tolerance is because of the larger combs?
So the rosecombs wouldn't have as good tolerance of heat, a tradeoff for their cold tolerance?

I think they loose a lot more heat via opening up their wings for air circulation and panting like a dog. Sure, heat is lost through the comb, but I don't think a rose comb is that much less efficient, but because it's closer to the head, and isn't a thin membrane, they don't freeze off so easily. That's my guess.... I could be wrong?

Up for discussion: Silver Gray Cockerel.

I know he is no ware near show quality, but I thought he might be good for conversation. I know nothing, but I think his tail set is too high, comb has too many points, and overall stance is too upright. I think his legs are too long, and he could use some more size, but on the bright side he has red earlobes.

I am curious to see what every one says, and like I said before I know nothing, I just got Dorkings this year.

May I try? I think you're right about the tail set, but I think the comb is supposed to have 6 points, isn't that what I see?

Also, I don't think his legs are so long, it's more that his chest/belly doesn't extend as much, it should be more rounded toward the bottom?

I have to ask this, not because I don't think your boy isn't adorable, I'd be happy to have such a cutie, but we're / I'm trying to learn, so I'm gonna ask... is his head a little flat / crow shaped?

Oh, and also, I think he has good width in the front, no? Is the tail ok also? I ask because I'm wondering if I read earlier that their tails aren't as spread out as say a Wyandotte?

Oh, one more... wing carriage. It seems ok to me. I think he is slightly stretching upward making his wing look as though it's a tiny bit more slanted than it should, but it seems to look correct. Am I wrong?

Thanks for posting the pictures, CFellows, They're very good pictures!