Denagard and/or duramycin 10 - a few questions

[MarinR]

I have two chicks who are battling a respiratory infection think. I have separated them from the other chicks and just started them on Duramycin 10. Questions:

One is cochin cockerel 7 weeks and the pullet is a dorking, 9 weeks (a future egg layer)... will her eggs be safe?

As for the rest of the flock, all approx the same age, I have denagard on its way in the mail. None of them are showing symptoms like the other two as of yet. Will the denagard be a good preventative, or should I treat them with the antibiotic too?

And... I have a flock of larger pullets, closer to laying age that are living in an enclosed yard quite separate from the little ones. Should I treat them with anything? How long before I even consider integrating these flocks?


New to the chikcen world and learning it's not so simple as it looks... Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[dawg53]

I have two chicks who are battling a respiratory infection think. I have separated them from the other chicks and just started them on Duramycin 10. Questions:
One is cochin cockerel 7 weeks and the pullet is a dorking, 9 weeks (a future egg layer)... will her eggs be safe?
As for the rest of the flock, all approx the same age, I have denagard on its way in the mail. None of them are showing symptoms like the other two as of yet. Will the denagard be a good preventative, or should I treat them with the antibiotic too?
And... I have a flock of larger pullets, closer to laying age that are living in an enclosed yard quite separate from the little ones. Should I treat them with anything? How long before I even consider integrating these flocks?
New to the chikcen world and learning it's not so simple as it looks... Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

First of all you didnt mention any symptoms as to why you suspect a respiratory disease. In any case, duramycin has a 21 day withdrawal period. Toss the eggs in the garbage for that amount of time. Duramycin is a broad spectrum antibiotic whereas denagard primarily treats mycoplasma diseases. Denagard will not treat other respiratory diseases such as coryza, infectious laryngotracheitis, infectious bronchitis etc...
Not knowing what respiratory disease it is without bloodwork or a necropsy performed is guesswork. Purchasing denagard would be a waste of money if it were coryza for example.
Respiratory diseases are contageous. Most of those types of diseases can be transmitted on clothing, shoes, hands, some are airborne. You would have to adhere to strict biosecurity measures as not to spread it to healthy birds. Never give antibiotics to healthy birds "just in case." Some of these diseases are passed through the eggs. A closed flock would have to be maintained. None in, none out and no selling eggs for hatching purposes.
The two sick birds in question, specifically if you suspect they have a respiratory disease...I recommend that you cull them.

 

[maidenwolfx80]

Wow cull just because a bird is sick?? I guess to each his own but I would rather treat the bird. I have a small scale hobby farm so maybe someone with a larger operation cant treat or doesnt make sense to etc.

 

[MarinR]

Thank you. This is all a bit overwhelming.... I can only do my best and then hope for the best I guess!

Their biggest symptom is the barky sounding cough. It's usually just one every few minutes or so. They also have a slight rattle that can be heard in their lungs when held up to my ear. These symptoms may be getting a little better with the VetRx I picked up but it's hard to tell. They also have watery eyes that are looking a little red/irritated. I got two new chicks about a week and a half ago and I noticed one of them sneezing a bit, but she seems to be fine now. A tiny little sneeze here and there but never a cough and her eyes are clear...

I will hold off on Denagard for sure, but for now, they are being treated with Duramycin. Now that I've started, I should probably see it through for the entire 1-2 weeks they should be taking it? I also put it in the water of the other chicks.... took the "better safe than sorry" advice, which maybe I should not have... In any event, what's done so far is done. What should I do from here? I will cull if absolutely necessary, but I do not feel that I am there yet. They will however, not be going anywhere near my big birds and I will continue to be diligent with hand washing and shoe changing while I am caring for both flocks. I'm really hoping this is just a little cold and I'm being paranoid... I was the same way with my human babies. Calling the doctor for every sneeze and sniffle.

 

[maidenwolfx80]

Yea I hear ya on calling the doc every time my babies ever coughed or sneezed. I think you are doing the best you can be doing. Follow through with the meds and sanitation and see how it all comes out. I hate when my chickens, cats, dogs, children are sick I always over worry..

 

[dawg53]

Wow cull just because a bird is sick?? I guess to each his own but I would rather treat the bird. I have a small scale hobby farm so maybe someone with a larger operation cant treat or doesnt make sense to etc.

Dont confuse human "bugs" such as the cold or flu with chicken respiratory problems. Humans "get over" a cold and/or flu in time. Chickens dont get a flu or cold, they get a specific disease and antibiotics only treat symptoms and dont cure the disease. Also, antibiotics are useless against viral diseases....same with humans. Continuing to give antibiotics only builds resistance to that particualar antibiotic, then it will require a more powerful antibiotic to "mask" the symptoms. It goes on and on with the antibiotics to the point there's nothing left on the market to treat the bird, not to mention the money spent. Survivors of respiratory diseases become carriers. The carrier birds will spread the disease to newly acquired or existing birds. Additionally, even if birds look healthy after treating them, stress can and will set off symptoms again. Of course we know that chickens NEVER get stressed lol.
If one chooses to spend their money on medications, risking a healthy flock of birds because of 2 sick birds, and playing nursemaid to them, not to mention medication withdrawal periods....I wish them the best of luck.

 

[MarinR]

Ok Dawg, I think get your stance on the use of antibiotics!

However, nurturing mother that I am, cannot bring myself to end these poor lives just yet. What you said about antibiotics being useless against viral infections... Given the symptoms I described, would you say there is a decent chance this could be just be viral? Would you recommend I continue to quarantine and watch for a while? Or are you sticking with the tried and true "off with their heads" approach... I definitely do not want to risk infecting my healthy birds with an incurable disease but then again, these are my pets. Not my livelihood. You know?

Any other thoughts or suggestions out there?

Thanks!!

 

[2greenboyz]

Hi MarinR - I totally understand where you are coming from, all I can do is tell you what happened with mine. First off, I do agree with Dawg on most of the things he says. But I had a few rescue hens in good health (that's how I got into this), had them for about 4 years, and decided to get some pullets b/c I didn't want to go thru raising chicks - never done that before. We went and picked up 4 pullets. I didn't have a real good spot to quarantine them, but I did have a pen within the run, and a dog crate, so that became their home for a week or so. Then I released them. It was only a few days before I realized there was a problem - respiratory. And it was coming from the newbies. I grabbed the suspects - two of the four - and returned them to the place I got them. They insisted they were not sick - although I could see the typical crusty dark area near their nares and I could hear respiratory sounds. I took my loss and went home empty handed. Then some of the others started in with the same symptoms. Didn't want to treat them all if they weren't sick, so I isolated best I could, used Duramycin for the prescribed period, and just as one was better another would get sick. To make this shorter, I finally ended up just releasing everyone and treating all at the same time. Also tried to clean up run, bleach containers, etc. I finally did get rid of it and it never returned, and I didn't lose any. So that is where Dawg and I part ways. I feel that if you can get it under control, they do not keep coming down with it or spread it to others. But then again, I don't know what I had - it was never diagnosed. It could be that some respiratory diseases are, like Dawg says, just real nasty and keep returning - there's a lot of different respiratory illnesses. All I can say is that was not my experience -That Time. (Hopefully there will be no Next Time)

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you care for the sick ones last, after caring for the healthy ones. Take proper precautions, and if you treat, treat for the full amount of time. Even then, I might keep isolated just to observe and be sure. When you read some of the stories on here it is truly heartbreaking what they have gone thru. So if there's any doubt that they are not cured after all that, hate to say it, but it would be best to say goodbye.

Oh, have to put in my rant here about Blacksmith's corner in L.A. who sold me those four pullets. Anybody reading this, don't even think of going there. They should be arrested and made to eat chicken poop. Sorry, but they caused me so much grief b/c of their disgusting husbandry practices that I can't pass up every opportunity.

 

[MarinR]

Thanks 2greenboyz for sharing that experience! I am feeling a little more hopeful now. Although I'm incredibly worried and also reading up on culling methods, I hope it doesn't come to that. I'm actually starting to think it might be infectious bronchitis... and that, according to some, will run its course and then they will be immune. Of course that means I'll be taking care of a bunch of sick chickens before it's done, but then it's over. Sounds like there is debate over whether or not they are carriers of IB for life or not... but if it is not life threatening and has a definite end, I will not be culling anyone. However I will wait a good long while before putting my flock together and yes, I will cull chicks if necessary. But not today!

Thanks everyone for your insight. It's been very helpful!

 

[maidenwolfx80]

I do agree that some illnesses are hard to treat and in that case culling is the only option. However, when you get new birds you run the risk of bringing that home, I always quaritine to watch for illness. Depending on if you are running a small operation or a small one like mine will make a difference on how you decide to treat. If I cant make a bird better, and it is suffering than yes I will do the right thing and I only try to cure the sick bird for 2 weeks before I will end it. Those viral and bacterial beasts will make short work of a bantam pullet. Anyway, not all ways of going about a situation is the same and that has to be respected and it helps to know as much info as possible.