Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[caychris]

please send some snow to California next year!

X10

 

[KendyF]

Hello,

I hope it is okay to put one quick post here, non SOP related.

As a fan of the Crele Color, I have been lurking and following this discussion. I am so happy it is taking place. To help gauge interest and get information from those who are breeding the Crele Color with no intention of going Cream. I have created another Thread for non SOP discussion, and in order to share information on how the results when we aren't breeding for color.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-not-breeding-to-the-proposed-cream-standards

Carry On and Thanks for discussing this.

 

[ChicKat]

Hello,

I hope it is okay to put one quick post here, non SOP related.

As a fan of the Crele Color, I have been lurking and following this discussion. I am so happy it is taking place. To help gauge interest and get information from those who are breeding the Crele Color with no intention of going Cream. I have created another Thread for non SOP discussion, and in order to share information on how the results when we aren't breeding for color.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-not-breeding-to-the-proposed-cream-standards

Carry On and Thanks for discussing this.

Thanks for alerting us to the other thread!

BTW - here are two intersesting links One from from Class room in the coop
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E01A05.pdf

and one to a discussion IN Class room in the coop
www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99193&page=all



Should you read it -- I want to know if anyone other than myself thinks that the test that Jilly did for silver in her cockerel that people were saying looked silver -- omitted the possibliity of a S/s+ cockerel- that would look silver but could have a gold daughter.

 

[KendyF]

Thanks for alerting us to the other thread!

BTW - here are two intersesting links One from from Class room in the coop
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E01A05.pdf

and one to a discussion IN Class room in the coop
www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99193&page=all



Should you read it -- I want to know if anyone other than myself thinks that the test that Jilly did for silver in her cockerel that people were saying looked silver -- omitted the possibliity of a S/s+ cockerel- that would look silver but could have a gold daughter.

I will read them! FYI, I don't know if it is of interest to any of you but there is also a Crele Legbar FB page. Where people are actually shopping for, sharing eggs, etc.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/623592941106420/

 

[ChicKat]

I will read them! FYI, I don't know if it is of interest to any of you but there is also a Crele Legbar FB page. Where people are actually shopping for, sharing eggs, etc.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/623592941106420/

LOL -- I am one of those people who don't use facebook -- so it isn't something I would access.

There is an outstanding question though -- I am curious about what you are considering to be a crele as different from the Cream Legbar that won at this year's British shows...and the one picutured in the article from Fancy Fowl magazine...

If you read Classroom in the Coop -- were the world Class chicken genetics experts hang out -- Henk Meijers, Grant Brereton, Sigrid Von Dort - others KazJaps and Wieslaw taht weigh in at Class room in the Coop -- really are Giants in chicken genetics. Henk developed the chicken calculator and opens it for all of our use....they are also, each of them - very generous with their knowledge!

Can you tell that I am kind of in awe of them?

Another question that I have -- is if the goal is the plumage of a Gold Legbar -- why not just go with a gold legbar?

Is this the coloration that you and the other 'crele' people are aiming for?

used with permission of BYC member racinchickens

It is a gorgeous bird that is for certain -- and the golden wing triangle may indicate that his gold would be very much lightened by his barring -- otherwise the wing triangle would be brown, as shown in this diagram -- where the 100% gold crele rooster shown has brown wing triangle.




Please help me out here, I'm trying to understand two things - hope that you can help -- one is where the differentation comes between what your group has identified as crele - and the other one is -- if the bright plumage color is the draw, then why not just go with the already established breed the gold Legbar?

Thanks!

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

The above rooster only has a single barring gene which isn't a good legbar since it wont breed true. Even the darkest colored birds I have seen have lacked the red hackle and black barring of traditional crele males. I need to try to get a photo of my crele OEGB, legbar, and the single & double barred crele phoenix males together to show the difference. The OEGB crele are more of a black breasted red with barring while the legbars are more light brown leghorn color with barring.

 

[caychris]

Please help me out here, I'm trying to understand two things - hope that you can help -- one is where the differentation comes between what your group has identified as crele - and the other one is -- if the bright plumage color is the draw, then why not just go with the already established breed the gold Legbar?

Thanks!

Im thinking that the difference is egg color. Gold and Silver Legbars are supposedly White egg layers.

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Please help me out here, I'm trying to understand two things - hope that you can help -- one is where the differentation comes between what your group has identified as crele - and the other one is -- if the bright plumage color is the draw, then why not just go with the already established breed the gold Legbar?

Thanks!

I was wondering the same thing. I think the conclusion that I have come to is that there is room for some color variation in the current proposed standard. It does allow for some color. I imagine there will be a more desired look as things develop along. And I imagine that it will go back and forth as these things always do depending on what is in favor at the time.

 

[KendyF]

LOL -- I am one of those people who don't use facebook -- so it isn't something I would access.

There is an outstanding question though -- I am curious about what you are considering to be a crele as different from the Cream Legbar that won at this year's British shows...and the one picutured in the article from Fancy Fowl magazine...

If you read Classroom in the Coop -- were the world Class chicken genetics experts hang out -- Henk Meijers, Grant Brereton, Sigrid Von Dort - others KazJaps and Wieslaw taht weigh in at Class room in the Coop -- really are Giants in chicken genetics. Henk developed the chicken calculator and opens it for all of our use....they are also, each of them - very generous with their knowledge!

Can you tell that I am kind of in awe of them?

Another question that I have -- is if the goal is the plumage of a Gold Legbar -- why not just go with a gold legbar?

Is this the coloration that you and the other 'crele' people are aiming for?

used with permission of BYC member racinchickens

It is a gorgeous bird that is for certain -- and the golden wing triangle may indicate that his gold would be very much lightened by his barring -- otherwise the wing triangle would be brown, as shown in this diagram -- where the 100% gold crele rooster shown has brown wing triangle.




Please help me out here, I'm trying to understand two things - hope that you can help -- one is where the differentation comes between what your group has identified as crele - and the other one is -- if the bright plumage color is the draw, then why not just go with the already established breed the gold Legbar?

Thanks!

Chickat, just to be clear I am not a genetics expert, so I want to make that clear from the beginning. Thank you for the questions I will do my best to answer you.
1. The difference is something which has been pointed out to us on every Legbar thread we have attempted to post pictures of our birds.Roosters would be more Gold in the Hackles and Gold to nearly Orange in the saddle, rather than creme. My hens are a mix of cream to gold in their neck feathers, with the salmon breast and I think the feathering would be considered closer to brown, like a light brown leghorn, on their backs, rather than the gray.
2. Why not go with a Gold Legbar? I don't think they are in the USA, and the blue egg and coloring are what attracted me to the birds in the first place.
Now I have a question for you.. Are there other breeds accepted into the APA with such huge coloring differences? I didn't want to derail this conversation,. In fact I had been reading it with no comments, as I am not an expert. However, I kept seeing people comment that we needed to breed the "Crele Legbars" to see what happens with them. I was pointing out there are people breeding them, and not trying for creme, and there is an interest in the more colored birds.

This guy is not perfect by any means and the picture isn't great. I know there have been other photos used in this discussion. You can clearly see he does not have the Cream Hackle feathers nor the Cream Saddle with just a bit of chestnut on his wings.
I

I wish I had a picture of her chest, and she is also not perfect, but is more of a brownish color rather than the gray.

My intention in starting the other thread, was to help find people who are breeding the Crele Birds, who prefer them and would like to see a color variation in the breed from the Creme birds. I do not pretend to be an expert on SOPs or Genetics. I am learning everyday. (Just so you understand my knowledge level is quite a bit lower than those who have been involved in the conversation. However, reading about it, and discussing it does help with defining it, so thank you for asking.

What the heck... Who doesn't have FB... LOL. Kidding.

 

[1muttsfan]

Yeah no Facebook here either, although I do sneak in on BF's sometimes. Primarily privacy concerns.

I like the crele and would love to see one. I would also like to see pea comb birds, and some brighter color patterns than just cream, but laying a blue egg.

There are many breeds that allow different colors and patterns, but each color must be admitted separately to the breed standard. If Cream Legbars are accepted under that name then other colors would maybe have to be accepted as separate breeds (which seems wasteful to me).