Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[chicken pickin]

P.S. I do not have two lines for pullets/cockerels and this year's growers look like some will best their parents. Though some breeders may prefer that method, I don't think we have to have two lines for show birds.

That is great to hear! I hope you grow out some great looking males and females. How many CL chicks have you hatched this year so far?

 

[KPenley]

That is great to hear! I hope you grow out some great looking males and females. How many CL chicks have you hatched this year so far?

This is a test year, so only 20ish this year ( I'm done incubating, but there are a few under a broody). But hopefully some of the eggs sent to 4H groups will hatch and I'd love to see how they grow out too. Next year I'm hoping to hatch 100. It has been a cockerel heavy year, but I am pleased that I'll be in the position to pick one or two of the best instead of just culling the worst.
The latest AI outbreak is scary, but assuming we escape it I should be able to bring some beautiful birds to TN in December and I'm on the fence about trying to make it to Delaware next year.

 

[1muttsfan]

In the early days of my flock, I had some SLW and considered breeding them. I read you could not raise an excellent roo and an excellent pullet from the same breeding pen. That was the end of the SLWs for me. Maybe to early to tell for the legbars.

Thanks KendyF

IN actuality - with the breed like ours -- (sexual dimorphism) unless there is a lot of care in how the breed is standardized that may be the case. There are some genetics experts in Europe (Sigrid von Dort for one, and I think Grant Brereton has also mentioned this) -- who will flat out say that this approach MUST be taken to meet the breed standard. I think Sigrid even points out that there is one breed who's standard make it impossible to do otherwise to get an example even close to the standard.

P.S. I do not have two lines for pullets/cockerels and this year's growers look like some will best their parents. Though some breeders may prefer that method, I don't think we have to have two lines for show birds.

That is good to hear KPenley, because one thing I do know for sure is that I will not be breeding anything that requires double breeding. Ever.

 

[KPenley]

I am totally with you 1muttsfan!

 

[fowlman01]

I'm not a fan of double mating either, but sometimes it is a quicker way to get the results you need. I don't think it will be necessary, especially since you are taking your time to insure this is done right.

There is never a perfect chicken (100 points). The idea is to have them as close as you can get them to the Standard. Speaking for myself.......if this was easy I would not be still doing it.

Walt

 

[ChicKat]

I'm not a fan of double mating either, but sometimes it is a quicker way to get the results you need. I don't think it will be necessary, especially since you are taking your time to insure this is done right.

There is never a perfect chicken (100 points). The idea is to have them as close as you can get them to the Standard. Speaking for myself.......if this was easy I would not be still doing it.

Walt

A question has been bouncing around in my mind for a couple of years now, specific to a 'qualifying meet'.

When the breed is stabilized, when the sufficient number of APA members have assembled the sufficient number of fowl, when the APA has reviews all the paperwork etc. - Do the APA judges then evaluate the individual entries and give them points, and is there a threshold that they must pass... just pulling numbers out of the sky -- such as none of the 50 birds can score below 80 - or some threshold number? So if 60 cream Legbars were assembled in the various categories and some were DQ'd --like an older cock-bird having too much red in the earlobe - and not be considered good enough - or an entry that someone thought was maybe a boarder-line cockerl was judged to be squirrel tail he would be DQ'd. I think that you once told us to plan on assembling 100 birds for a qualifying meet.... and a number of them didn't match the threshold...is that the way it is done? Some number based on the entire 100 possible awarded to every chicken in the qualifying meet -- then seeing if the litmus tests is passed?

I guess that is more than 'a question'.

 

[ChicKat]

And below here is a girl who is split for cream--nice pullet--and I have always thought of her breast as being chestnut instead of cream although her hackles have lightened up to a rich buttery color (maybe from grass fed cows instead of ones fed on silage and TMR

) she's the one on the right. And a picture of her hackles as a 12 week old--I don't know if you can appreciate how much they have lightened up over time as I have found that cream and gold tends to get washed out in all my pictures.

WOW! On my monitor up in the upper right corner where it shows 'recent images in this thread' -- the image of this pullet's hackle feathers glow with that shimmering cream - almost as if it is lit. It is more evident in the little thumbnail at the top than in this chicken... Pretty bird and as caychris said -- nice barring on the neck. She also has the 'gray' back which is a tell - and I think the gray and cream crest though it is a bit hard to discrern that. Look at your thumbnials up there Ladies and gents.

ETA -- oops I just read the caption -- well I think that dretd needs to send her to me - don't you?

 

[fowlman01]

A question has been bouncing around in my mind for a couple of years now, specific to a 'qualifying meet'.

When the breed is stabilized, when the sufficient number of APA members have assembled the sufficient number of fowl, when the APA has reviews all the paperwork etc. - Do the APA judges then evaluate the individual entries and give them points, and is there a threshold that they must pass... just pulling numbers out of the sky -- such as none of the 50 birds can score below 80 - or some threshold number? So if 60 cream Legbars were assembled in the various categories and some were DQ'd --like an older cock-bird having too much red in the earlobe - and not be considered good enough - or an entry that someone thought was maybe a boarder-line cockerl was judged to be squirrel tail he would be DQ'd. I think that you once told us to plan on assembling 100 birds for a qualifying meet.... and a number of them didn't match the threshold...is that the way it is done? Some number based on the entire 100 possible awarded to every chicken in the qualifying meet -- then seeing if the litmus tests is passed?

I guess that is more than 'a question'.

it is always better to have more than 50 birds in the event some are DQ'd or do not score high enough. I am posting a qualifying meet report. This is the only one I can find and it unfortunately is hand written, but you can see the comments. A numerical score is not used these days.



Walt

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

Ok, I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I have been reading all these recent posts with great interest. I am still trying to understand all of this and how I should be moving forward with my birds. In referencing the cream debate, right now I guess I can see both "sides" and I think both have great points.

My take on it is that Chickat believes there is room for more genetic variation. Dretd states the bird isn't really cream unless it is double for cream genetically and the tell is the wing triangle. Walt states that it doesn't really matter what the genotype is as long as the birds looks like the written standard. But a lot of the birds look the same or similar. And if they look the same (except for the black and white wing triangle which isn't a DQ is it?) then why can't they both be worthy of breeding forward?

If you can get the same type and the same look...does it matter if they are double for cream? I am really trying to wrap my head around this.

 

[ChicKat]

it is always better to have more than 50 birds in the event some are DQ'd or do not score high enough. I am posting a qualifying meet report. This is the only one I can find and it unfortunately is hand written, but you can see the comments. A numerical score is not used these days.



Walt

Thanks Walt! I have wondered how that works! Much appreciated.