Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[fowlman01]

This is just my opinion, but it is based on 50 years of doing this at a level that some would say is successful.


You folks can talk about it, you can teach it and you can argue about it, but the bottom line is that people don't know what they are dealing with in terms of the genetic makeup of their birds. Some have had these for a good while now, but it takes several years to find out what these birds are really carrying. You first need to have your five APA members lined up, then decide on one color Standard. There is some flexibility, so it does not have to match the British Standard exactly...but we would need a compelling reason why it is different. There are many examples of differences in the APA Standard and the country of origins Standard. So, we can be somewhat flexible. Try for one color version first......so you will need to decide that at some point.

At the qualifying meet the birds entered only need to look like the description given to the APA. The APA does not care what genes they are carrying as long as they reproduce 50% correct....with the normal variations that any color pattern would have. There will be a great need for the education of the public and especially the judges. Judges respect breed clubs that promote their breeds. They have no problem learning about a breed from the people that breed them. .....99% of them anyway.....and I can guarantee that whoever the judge is that will do the qualifying meet that they will be easy to work with. If it is somewhere I can get to, it will probably be me doing the judging.

I will help you in any way I can. The timeline is up to you folks and I am glad that you are taking your time and trying to have your Standard correct rather than rush and have problems.

Good job to all who have participated!


Walt

 

[caychris]

Sorry--no can do! I like this hen a lot. Her hackles have lightened up over time so she look more like my 'regular' cram Legbars, though. I kept her becasue I liked her barring so much--very wide border of color around the even barring. Alas she is undersized. If I could take the best feature of each bird and combine it with the other bird's best parts it would sure make life a lot easier, wouldn't it?

I would be happy to send you down some eggies from her later this summer, if you like I was thinking of pairing my Cream Roo who is overly melanized (you know, the one who looks a lot like the Show Winner from GB?) with her for a fall hatch--just saying!

Can I get on that list?

 

[ChicKat]

This is just my opinion, but it is based on 50 years of doing this at a level that some would say is successful.


You folks can talk about it, you can teach it and you can argue about it, but the bottom line is that people don't know what they are dealing with in terms of the genetic makeup of their birds. Some have had these for a good while now, but it takes several years to find out what these birds are really carrying. You first need to have your five APA members lined up, then decide on one color Standard. There is some flexibility, so it does not have to match the British Standard exactly...but we would need a compelling reason why it is different. There are many examples of differences in the APA Standard and the country of origins Standard. So, we can be somewhat flexible. Try for one color version first......so you will need to decide that at some point.

At the qualifying meet the birds entered only need to look like the description given to the APA. The APA does not care what genes they are carrying as long as they reproduce 50% correct....with the normal variations that any color pattern would have. There will be a great need for the education of the public and especially the judges. Judges respect breed clubs that promote their breeds. They have no problem learning about a breed from the people that breed them. .....99% of them anyway.....and I can guarantee that whoever the judge is that will do the qualifying meet that they will be easy to work with. If it is somewhere I can get to, it will probably be me doing the judging.

I will help you in any way I can. The timeline is up to you folks and I am glad that you are taking your time and trying to have your Standard correct rather than rush and have problems.

Good job to all who have participated!


Walt

Thanks for the good advice Walt. So if we would be lucky enough to get you for our qualifying meet - it would be best to have it on the West Coast or some place that you regularly travel? -- That gives us a good start to strategy. And 5 APA members are the minimum, but we could have a few more as I understand it...right?

 

[ChicKat]

Okay - Club members, CL aficonados, People who care about this breed being accepted by the APA -- It's really time to find that image that is a match to the SOP that at least 5 APA members who are Cream Legbar raisers can agree to -- and hopefully everyone. Sort of as Junibutt was saying a few posts back -- determine what color is 'cream' because it will make all the difference.... we could start the clock ticking now or really soon.... a commitment.

what do you think every one?

 

[chicken pickin]

Okay - Club members, CL aficonados, People who care about this breed being accepted by the APA -- It's really time to find that image that is a match to the SOP that at least 5 APA members who are Cream Legbar raisers can agree to -- and hopefully everyone. Sort of as Junibutt was saying a few posts back -- determine what color is 'cream' because it will make all the difference.... we could start the clock ticking now or really soon.... a commitment.

what do you think every one?

So these 5 (or more) APA members who are working with Cream Legbar, if they want to be part of this acceptance, could you break it down for those of us that are wondering, what would specifically be required of them. How do they show proof that their birds are breeding true at least 50% of the time, are they required to bring their CLs to shows, would they need detailed records or photos of their breeder birds and offspring, and would they need to be at that qualifying meet or other meets with their CL etc. Im not fully aware of how the process goes but I would love to help where I can, or help others that might be able to help. And Im sure I asked you previously about this, and if the club had these 5 APA members but I would have to go back through my emails and look it up, which I will.

 

[ChicKat]

So these 5 (or more) APA members who are working with Cream Legbar, if they want to be part of this acceptance, could you break it down for those of us that are wondering, what would specifically be required of them. How do they show proof that their birds are breeding true at least 50% of the time, are they required to bring their CLs to shows, would they need detailed records or photos of their breeder birds and offspring, and would they need to be at that qualifying meet or other meets with their CL etc. Im not fully aware of how the process goes but I would love to help where I can, or help others that might be able to help. And Im sure I asked you previously so of this, and if the club had these 5 APA members but I would have to go back through my emails and look it up, which I will.

Super good questions and considerations -- we have a summary on the Club's website of how I understood the process - and I think it is also explained in the very first Club's newsletter that came out. In January I think it is - the APA put in a revised policy -- and it was tweaks to improve the previous. Let me look through my APA news letters later today - and I will get as much information to you as I am able - or maybe send the copy of page to you via other media.

Just looking back at the most recent picts, I wonder if we could use KPenley's cockerel as the light end of the spectrum and Elissa's UK look-a-like as the saturated end (This would kind of be in line with the past two big winners at the UK nationals - although I think KPenley's has a better color than Jill Ree's. Were we to get there -- even if via a member vote of the CL Club -- we could focus on a LOT of other important things from weight to combs to you name it. I think your flock would be a representative on the light end...and if we could get some buy-in from those who thought that Crele had to be a different variety - if they can match to Elissa's look-a-like -- then we would be more unified in our efforts.

Although not everyone would be pleased/satisfied/accommodated, I think that these representatives, yours, kpenley's and Elissa's are not unreasonable -- again in light of the UK -- and since Chestnut is allowed then, those who want chestnut can retain it in their flocks.

 

[ChicKat]

Awhile back, I posted this photo

This is the saddle feathers from a pelt I have and I think that the 'edged with cream' approaches OAC851 for those with an OAC -- How near or far from that shade are other people's cream expressed?

Or maybe OAC767, or OAC795, or OAC815, OAC816 I will have to recheck my pelt in day light -- the former is on a more green page and these latter ones are on the gold page.... doh.

Maybe OAC 816 is closer (mostly covered by feathers) or OAC816 it's daylight now --- so probably more accurate than my previous shot.

 

[1muttsfan]

This is just my opinion, but it is based on 50 years of doing this at a level that some would say is successful.

At the qualifying meet the birds entered only need to look like the description given to the APA.

I will help you in any way I can. The timeline is up to you folks and I am glad that you are taking your time and trying to have your Standard correct rather than rush and have problems.

Good job to all who have participated!

Walt

Thank you for your time Walt, it reassuring to know that we are on the right track. We don't need 100 (or 50) identical birds, we just need a group that overall satisfies the breed characteristics, including color and shape - that means that some minor variability in color, similar to what is seen in other shown breeds, will be acceptable.

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks for the good advice Walt.  So if we would be lucky enough to get you for our qualifying meet - it would be best to have it on the West Coast or some place that you regularly travel? --  That gives us a good start to strategy.  And 5 APA members are the minimum, but we could have a few more as I understand it...right?

It would be better to have more than 5. Five years is a long time and things sometimes alter our course. You don't want to start over. You need to place the meet in an area where you have good support.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Thank you for your time Walt, it reassuring to know that we are on the right track.  We  don't need 100 (or 50) identical birds, we just need a group that overall satisfies the breed characteristics, including color and shape - that means that some minor variability in color, similar to what is seen in other shown breeds, will be acceptable.

This color pattern will naturally have more color variations than most other color combinations. Usually but not always the males are easier to get the proper color than females. The judging will allow for some variations at the qualifying meet. They should look similar though.

Walt