Do I Say Something or Is It Better To Say Nothing? Re: Vulture Hocks

[Ruthster55]

A well-known Brahma breeder who will remain anonymous posted this picture of a chick on Facebook.

I was shocked that this breeder would advertise this chick as anything favorable whatsoever. It has vulture hocks, doesn't it?

If what I'm seeing is just soft feathering, I will delete this post out of embarrassment. The feathers look soft now, but I think they will become quill-like as this chick gets older.

Since I posted this, I deduced that the breeder is using the British Poultry Standards rather than the APA Standard of Perfection.

I am aware that vulture hocks are permitted in Brahmas shown in Europe and the UK. However, vulture hocks in Brahmas are a disqualification in the United States.

Several people on FB were oohing and aahing over this chick, whereas I wanted to say that I saw a problem. I held my tongue, though. Who am I to say this?

If I were breeding to the APA Standard, this chick would be sold cheap or given away as a pet chicken for an all-hen city flock. I would prefer to wait to make sure it's a pullet, and then rehome it to a small urban or suburban egg/pet flock.

By the British Poultry Standards, this chick is fine.

Just for reference, I put a picture of a D'Uccle below showing its (proper) vulture hocks.

 

[Amer]

Is the breeder breeding to the SOP? Many brahma breeders breed beautiful pets in many colors that will never see a show hall. If that breeder isn’t breeding buff, light, or dark Brahmas for the purpose of showing, I wouldn’t worry about it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
If that breeder does care about the SOP which might be the case since it looks like a buff Brahma chick, I would alert them of the issue.

 

[Ruthster55]

Is the breeder breeding to the SOP? Many brahma breeders breed beautiful pets in many colors that will never see a show hall. If that breeder isn’t breeding buff, light, or dark Brahmas for the purpose of showing, I wouldn’t worry about it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
If that breeder does care about the SOP which might be the case since it looks like a buff Brahma chick, I would alert them of the issue.

Unfortunately, I don't really know how this breeder does their program or their goals.

A second breeder in the same general area has some really nice Brahmas. This one is awesome!! I believe the second breeder goes by a Standard, as they have mentioned it. Not sure whether they use the British Poultry Standards or the US SOP. (I figured it out now - see below).

A lot of people ask each of these two breeders if they have birds for sale. They usually do not have any stock for sale.
.

 

[SulkyBantam]

I think he's a beautiful brahma, regardless of vulture hocks, and should be oohed and aahed over for sure! Its a living chicken remember, and maybe the breeder doesn't want to kill it/

 

[Ruthster55]

I think he's a beautiful brahma, regardless of vulture hocks, and should be oohed and aahed over for sure! Its a living chicken remember, and maybe the breeder doesn't want to kill it/

I told them. I suggested that this would be a good pet rather than used for breeding.

 

[Ruthster55]

The second breeder (the one that I know follows a Standard and has some great Brahmas) just piped in and said that the chick is "spectacular" and will be great for breeding...
That's by the APA Standard of Perfection, but it's OK if we're going by the British Poultry Standards.

It's pretty clear to deduce that the Brahma breeders in my location (not the UK) are using the British Poultry Standards rather than the APA Standard of Perfection.

That's OK. It's good to be able to figure out what Standards chicken breeders here use, and the vulture hocks being OK here was remarkably diagnostic.

The British Poultry Standards say this in regard to Brahmas:

"Legs and feet: Legs moderately long, powerful, well apart and feathered. Thighs large and covered in front by the lower breast feathers. Fluff soft, abundant, covering the hind parts, and standing out behind the thighs. Hocks amply covered with soft rounded feathers, or with quill feathers provided they are accompanied with proportionately heavy shank and foot feathering. Shank feather profuse, standing well out from legs and toes, extending under the hock feathers and to the extremity of the middle and outer toes, profuse leg and foot feather without vulture hock being desirable. Toes four, straight and spreading."

As can be seen, vulture hocks are not a defect under the British Standards, and no points would be taken off in a show. However, the "desirable" statement probably means that if there were two otherwise equal-merit birds at a show, the one without vulture hocks would place ahead of the one with vulture hocks.

 

[SulkyBantam]

I don't know about you, but I don't like it when a perfectly good bird is deemed 'useless' because of one feature.

Of course, your suggestion is a v. good one. It would make a good pet. I think we should encourage people to make them pets, not meals, when they are not perfect!

 

[Ruthster55]

I don't know about you, but I don't like it when a perfectly good bird is deemed 'useless' because of one feature.

Of course, your suggestion is a v. good one. It would make a good pet. I think we should encourage people to make them pets, not meals, when they are not perfect!

I believe that if you're in Ireland, you would use the British Poultry Standards. It's fine under those Standards, and sure, you could use it in a breeding program.

The APA Standard of Perfection is different, but wouldn't apply to you.

Don't worry. By the responses I saw, this one won't be a meal.

 

[SulkyBantam]

Ha yes, I'm sure it wont.

Yep, I'm in Ireland. I only have a few show standards at the moment, but the are to british standards yes.

 

[EmmaRainboe]

A well-known Brahma breeder who will remain anonymous posted this picture of a chick on Facebook.

I was shocked that this breeder would advertise this chick as anything favorable whatsoever. It has vulture hocks, doesn't it?

If what I'm seeing is just soft feathering, I will delete this post out of embarrassment. The feathers look soft now, but I think they will become quill-like as this chick gets older.

I am aware that vulture hocks are permitted in Brahmas shown in Europe and the UK. However, vulture hocks in Brahmas are a disqualification in the United States.

Several people on FB were oohing and aahing over this chick, whereas I wanted to say that I saw a problem. I held my tongue, though. Who am I to say this?

If this chick came out of my yard, it would either go in the stew pot or would be sold cheap or given away as a pet chicken for an all-hen city flock. I would prefer to wait to make sure it's a pullet, and then rehome it to a small urban or suburban egg/pet flock.

Just for reference, I put a picture of a D'Uccle below showing its (proper) vulture hocks.

View attachment 2413245

View attachment 2413263

I personally love that chick! I love the look of the vulture hocks but I don't show birds. If I did show birds it might be a problem but I don't think it's a problem for the average backyard chicken keeper. I wouldn't mind having it in my own flock