Do You Have An Opinion On Killing Predators?

[CAjerseychick]

Um, no. They were not living here and we walked in and decided to have chickens and roped off a chunk of their range to call ours. This farm was homesteaded over 140 years ago. There is not a raccoon or possum in the area that's that old. To the ones that live in our grove and on the prairie near here, we were here first. There are plenty of fields, groves, sloughs and wildlife areas around here. Hundreds of acres. Many sections of land. They hold lots of other wildlife and natural prey. They don't need to come near the buildings. If they find their way in, and get to my chickens because I didn't secure the coop well enough, then that's my problem. But if they're being destructive (not only to my chickens, but buildings, machinery, etc) they need to go. We don't just blow away every coon or possum we see (skunks, yes). Only if they're being a nuisance. BTW, I'd never get close enough to a cornered coon to give it a few good whacks with a stick. First of all, they're ferocious when cornered and will fight back, secondly, it would take more than a stick to whack it hard enough to kill it.

But how do they know that they arent supposed to be on your farm? By the time they "know" they are dead, and like that one person said, for every one you kill there is 10 more right behind it....whats the point of the endless killing....
I know up in Pt Reyes there is a herd of elk/ some nonnative deer species that were imported and they are trying to get rid of them humanely-- they started with laying out feed laced with contraceptives so no new babies which I think is a great idea....
its the same concept behind trapping, spaying and rereleasing feral cats-- that way you have a colony in place (no new cats will come in) that cant reproduce... but this was in SF... and sad to say... our songbird population did not return til owls were introduced 10 years ago and the feral cat population seems to have really gone down-- I used to roam through every nook and cranny with my dogs through Golden Gate Park/ the NNGRA land(too high energy dogs for the city really thank God we moved to some land)
Also I know not to corner a coon (I spent 10 years in Arkansas waaay out in the country).... maybe a rock or something, I am thinking unless rabid its instinct is to flee....

 

[Rachy]

If anything threatens my animals and I can, I would have no qualms about disposing of it.

 

[MuckyPuppy]

Rachy,

You are so much braver than me! I am terrified by the "stand there and let everything get eaten by wild animals, they were here first" brigade.

 

[CAjerseychick]

Rachy,
You are so much braver than me! I am terrified by the "stand there and let everything get eaten by wild animals, they were here first" brigade.

I am Not of that opinion-- look at CA for the last 20 years-- sheep ranchers spent a couple centuries shooting trapping poisioning predators-- they switched to LGD about 20 years ago with a sharp reduction in predation -- (I found this info on some site, I think about dorper sheep/ or LGDs-- what I said was-- prevention would seem to be best then killing the same species over and over again....That keeps you busy certainly, but not sure how successful in the long run vs. prevention/ protecting your flock via secure fencing/coop/ guard animals....

 

[chickortreat]

.

 

[janinepeters]

Not being mean spirited but, when people use terminology like ecosystem or, live-and-let-live, we should remember that the survival-of-the-fittest doctrine is purely THE WAY of nature or, the ecosystem if you will.

Hardly anyone ever quotes some "humane" doctrine when referring to ants, rats or moles. We tend to take the "righteous route" when it comes to an animal as stately and beautiful as a hawk or, as cute-n-cuddly as a raccoon or fox. Once a person witnesses how absolutely horrible the death of a chicken is by fox, raccoon or by hawk, they usually overcome any sentimental feelings about these killers. These three literally tear their victims apart piece-by-piece while still alive. It takes a while for them to finally die, screaming the whole while.

I agree with Trefoil's post #11. But to add to that, in reference to the OP's words quoted above, my understanding is that "survival of the fittest" refers to competition among individuals within a species, not between species. According to my research, destruction of other species degrades the very ecosystem on which one's own species depends. YMMV, but I think of the "fittest" humans as those who can feed themselves with minimal impact on other species, thereby protecting resources for their own progeny.

As far as "humane doctrine", it is not an animal's cuteness or cuddliness, but its capacity for suffering and enjoyment, which concerns me. From what I gather from animal studies, animals with larger brains and more complex nervous systems are more able to experience suffering, enjoyment, and other emotions. So I think much less about taking an ant's life than a coyote's life, for example. And when I do take another animal's life, I want it to be necessary for my own health and well-being. Yes, "health and well-being" is vague, and others might feel that killing to protect their chickens or even just for fun is necessary for their own well-being. But I have no interest in killing for fun, and since I find it cheaper, easier, more humane, and more environmentally friendly to simply prevent predator attacks, I personally consider lethal control a poor choice.

And yes, I have seen a few attacks on my chickens. No, it did not inspire any anger whatsoever towards the predator. What these incidents did inspire were a few changes in my management and set up, for better prevention. But I was a wildlife tracker before I began raising chickens, so I came into this with a lot of appreciation for, and knowledge of, the ways of the local wildlife. I knew more about predator behavior than chicken behavior, and already enjoyed the company of these "killers", just like I enjoy the company of other people, every one of whom is also a"killer".

 

[Citychicken12]

I agree with Trefoil's post #11.  But to add to that, in reference to the OP's words quoted above, my understanding is that "survival of the fittest" refers to competition among individuals within a species, not between species.   According to my research, destruction of other species degrades the very ecosystem on which one's own species depends.  YMMV, but I think of the "fittest" humans as those who can feed themselves with minimal impact on other species, thereby protecting resources for their own progeny.


As far as "humane doctrine", it is not an animal's cuteness or cuddliness, but its capacity for suffering and enjoyment, which concerns me.  From what I gather from animal studies, animals with larger brains and more complex nervous systems are more able to experience suffering, enjoyment, and other emotions.  So I think much less about taking an ant's life than a coyote's life, for example.  And when I do take another animal's life, I want it to be necessary for my own health and well-being.  Yes, "health and well-being" is vague, and others might feel that killing to protect their chickens or even just for fun is necessary for their own well-being.  But I have no interest in killing for fun, and since I find it cheaper, easier, more humane, and more environmentally friendly to simply prevent predator attacks, I personally consider lethal control a poor choice.


And yes, I have seen a few attacks on my chickens.  No, it did not inspire any anger whatsoever towards the predator.  What these incidents did inspire were a few changes in my management and set up, for better prevention.  But I was a wildlife tracker before I began raising chickens, so I came into this with a lot of appreciation for, and knowledge of, the ways of the local wildlife.  I knew more about predator behavior than chicken behavior, and already enjoyed the company of these "killers", just like I enjoy the company of other people, every one of whom is also a"killer".

This is one of the best posts I have read regarding this issue. I also follow this way of thinking. After doing extensive research and witnessing it with my own eyes, the value of maintaining the ecosystem has become important me. Preventative measures work and have worked for me and many other people around me when dealing with predator issues.

 

[centrarchid]

I agree with Trefoil's post #11. But to add to that, in reference to the OP's words quoted above, my understanding is that "survival of the fittest" refers to competition among individuals within a species, not between species. According to my research, destruction of other species degrades the very ecosystem on which one's own species depends. YMMV, but I think of the "fittest" humans as those who can feed themselves with minimal impact on other species, thereby protecting resources for their own progeny.

As far as "humane doctrine", it is not an animal's cuteness or cuddliness, but its capacity for suffering and enjoyment, which concerns me. From what I gather from animal studies, animals with larger brains and more complex nervous systems are more able to experience suffering, enjoyment, and other emotions. So I think much less about taking an ant's life than a coyote's life, for example. And when I do take another animal's life, I want it to be necessary for my own health and well-being. Yes, "health and well-being" is vague, and others might feel that killing to protect their chickens or even just for fun is necessary for their own well-being. But I have no interest in killing for fun, and since I find it cheaper, easier, more humane, and more environmentally friendly to simply prevent predator attacks, I personally consider lethal control a poor choice.

And yes, I have seen a few attacks on my chickens. No, it did not inspire any anger whatsoever towards the predator. What these incidents did inspire were a few changes in my management and set up, for better prevention. But I was a wildlife tracker before I began raising chickens, so I came into this with a lot of appreciation for, and knowledge of, the ways of the local wildlife. I knew more about predator behavior than chicken behavior, and already enjoyed the company of these "killers", just like I enjoy the company of other people, every one of whom is also a"killer".

I support this line of thinking as well.

 

[Rachy]

I have suffered grief, and witnessed the upset of my children at the taking and killing of our family pets by foxes. I am top predator and I will take the action I deem appropriate to ensure the safety of my animals, as also would any animal.

I am sorry if my opinion upsets or annoys anyone, but this is my own personal view and understand others feel differently.

 

[Macro]

Wow, I am impressed with your rattlesnake eating -- just curious what is the best way to cook them...
Have not yet ran into a snake up here but am told rattlesnakes do live here -- have only run into them camping so far (a few years back)....
Am a bit nervous b/c have found a few dead rats, 2 dead squirrels, and a bunny-- none eaten -- in the few months we have lived here-- have seen a raccoon, hawks, and several feral cats in the brush -- so just wondering what it could be-- we have big dogs roaming so that is why probably have not had a predator (well one of the dogs has gotten 3 chicks, but it was our fault) loss yet...

My dad is usually the one that does the snake cooking. Most of the time I see him boiling/sauteing snake with butter/stock, but I can't be sure. My boyfriend describes the taste as being close to chicken (darker meat areas), but the texture can be more rubbery. We usually just chop the head off and put it into a jar very very carefully to dispose of in an area where no one will step on it or accidently grab it. Then skin it, gut it, and throw it in the pot. This was the last one we found under our shed.

Fortunately/unfortunately snakes love hiding in and under things, so perhaps they're all just hiding from you! Or maybe something is keeping their population relatively small. Does it get hot where you are? It gets to be 100+ F in the summers here, so the snakes love to come out and sun themselves. Usually we get a lot of snakes in the summer and then by fall they've all gone away. When they're in the way, my dad and brother usually just pick them up and move them off to the side. Except for the rattlesnakes. Blarg. Scary little buggers.