Drug test for welfare recipients

[newfoundland]

Although i have always been an unashamed campaigner for social reform, I do not consider that any of the things you mention, cable TV, internet, or moblie phones are necessities. Food, shelter and clothes are. To some extent so is travel as it is impossible to look for work if you haven't the means to travel on a bus for example. I know of no system that pays for claimants to receive these things free, or how that would work, since these companies are commercial enterprises. Are you saying that the state pays directly to the companies for these services? If you are then this is quite a scandalous abuse of public monies in my opinion. If on the other hand, you mean that some claimants, out of the money they are awarded, manage to pay for these things, whilst neglecting other more pressing areas of expenditure like food etc. I'm afraid that comes with living in a democracy. It is said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and I feel that applies particularly to the careful control and transparencies of the public purse. Any system must have continual checks and balances if the system is to operate fairly.

You mention Greece. One of the main things that has undermined the economy is the over employment of public servants at ridiculously high wages. The running of public services, such as buses in a hopelessly uneconomic way. A London bus driver went to Greece and found that not only did he receive twice the salary for half the work, but mostly he was running his bus empty of passengers. Also, I feel in some way the EU is responsible for some of the problems. When I first travelled to Greece, more years than I care to remember ago, it was essentially a agricultural/fishing economy, and tourism was emerging as a sustainable growth industry. After joining the EU it seemed that all citizens demanded parity with other EU members. But Europe is very diverse and no two economies were incomparable. Individual countries began to emulate their vast industrialised neighbours but they were living beyond their means. Greece could never be the economic powerhouse that Germany was for example. They could never generate the income that they now needed, as they continued to overpay themselves. The same applies to other European countries, and some of the newer members, in the east are in even more dire straights. What they are having to do, as we all are, is slash back savagely on public spending it is the only way forward.

 

[chickened]

So what you are saying is Greece is a 10 dollar country in a 50 dollar suit?

Welfare is paid by a credit/debit card. It is a semi honor system.

Quote:

Although i have always been an unashamed campaigner for social reform, I do not consider that any of the things you mention, cable TV, internet, or moblie phones are necessities. Food, shelter and clothes are. To some extent so is travel as it is impossible to look for work if you haven't the means to travel on a bus for example. I know of no system that pays for claimants to receive these things free, or how that would work, since these companies are commercial enterprises. Are you saying that the state pays directly to the companies for these services? If you are then this is quite a scandalous abuse of public monies in my opinion. If on the other hand, you mean that some claimants, out of the money they are awarded, manage to pay for these things, whilst neglecting other more pressing areas of expenditure like food etc. I'm afraid that comes with living in a democracy. It is said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and I feel that applies particularly to the careful control and transparencies of the public purse. Any system must have continual checks and balances if the system is to operate fairly.

You mention Greece. One of the main things that has undermined the economy is the over employment of public servants at ridiculously high wages. The running of public services, such as buses in a hopelessly uneconomic way. A London bus driver went to Greece and found that not only did he receive twice the salary for half the work, but mostly he was running his bus empty of passengers. Also, I feel in some way the EU is responsible for some of the problems. When I first travelled to Greece, more years than I care to remember ago, it was essentially a agricultural/fishing economy, and tourism was emerging as a sustainable growth industry. After joining the EU it seemed that all citizens demanded parity with other EU members. But Europe is very diverse and no two economies were incomparable. Individual countries began to emulate their vast industrialised neighbours but they were living beyond their means. Greece could never be the economic powerhouse that Germany was for example. They could never generate the income that they now needed, as they continued to overpay themselves. The same applies to other European countries, and some of the newer members, in the east are in even more dire straights. What they are having to do, as we all are, is slash back savagely on public spending it is the only way forward.

 

[airen]

I can't speak for any one else's situation, but I was on welfare for a time in FL... before the drug testing law.

My husband had been out of work for two years. Every day he walked to the bus stop and looked for a job. He was a commercial/residential electrician, but hadn't been able to find a job at a McD's. I was a dog groomer but wasn't making enough to support our family.

Welfare, to put it bluntly, is not enough for the average family to survive. Cost of living has increased, but the checks have not. Government housing had a waiting list, so we were rented a one bedroom. Just that was more than half my income. Food stamps paid for about half out monthly groceries. Every bit helped, but I had two boys and a husband to feed. I "splurged" on frozen vegetables and real meat/chicken. I refused to by that boxed crap when dry rice and beans was cheaper. But produce would kill any budget I had. Bread and cereal were not options.

We paid for a cell phone because it was cheaper than a house line and we had applications out. And yes- it was a new snazzy phone, because it was free with the contract.

We paid for internet because so many places were online applications only and the library had a two hour daily limit. He'd also take any day jobs he could find on craigslist.

My husband had to turn down jobs because the part time job they were offering was less than the government help. Make Work Pay sounds great, but we couldn't wait for tax time to get that. It no longer exists, anyways.

The system is broken. They do make it hard to get off of it. We got lucky and my husband was able to find good work in an entirely new career. Most of my friends- good, hard working people, are still stuck because there are no jobs. No will hire full time because they have to pay for health care. If you have kids, daycare is sometimes too expensive to make a 25hour a week job worth it. Daycare makes you pay for a 40hour week, no matter what. And the child care program is a joke. It's a two year waiting list.

Drug testing isn't going to fix/change anything. We wouldn't have had to worry about it, but that's a non issue. All it would have done is taken a day out of my husband's time. We didn't HAVE $80 to pay for that testing. Yes, we would have been reimbursed. Still didn't have it. That was my gas to get to my job($50 a week). Or the power bill. Or RENT.

If everyone is so mad their tax dollars are going to pay for welfare, fix welfare. Make companies pay a living wage. Fl minimum wage is $7.67/hr. That just went up at the end of last year. After taxes in the average part time job that's $140/wk. A single person (which, in FL wouldn't be on welfare anyways. It a set amount a year, and families with kids are first served) can survive on that.

If you're so upset about a social program, stop suggesting socialist solutions.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

If you're so upset about a social program, stop suggesting socialist solutions.

 

[Capvin]

AIREN......Thank you for your post and thank you for being so honest and couragous. Now get ready for the usual suspects to attempt to make mince meat out of you. Pay them no mind as that is exactly what most of them lack.

 

[dainerra]

some programs DO offer cell phones. Why? because if you don't have a phone then it's kind of hard to get hired for a job. They stopped paying for landlines because of complaints - with a landline, anyone in the world can call you and maybe they were sitting on the phone all day chattin' with their friends instead. With the cell phones, there is X number of minutes a month, doesn't matter if it's in or out. When the minutes are gone, then you have no phone. So, yes, I would call a phone a necessity in today's world.

I've never heard of any government program offering cable TV service. I've heard of a few places considering internet but don't know any place that does. I can see it - not everyone can get to the library and a LOT of companies no longer take or accept paper applications (Lowes and Home Depot come to mind). Kids are required to have computer access to complete a LOT of the homework they receive every week.

 

[LegginMF12]

I've checked the numbers on this. FL is one of the first states to require this. So far, it has cost them far more money than it has saved. What they have found is that welfare recipients aren't any more likely to test positive than any other portion of the population. Yes, there are some that do illegal drugs. Of course, they have other criminal activities and signs that they are drug users than just the fact that they receive assistance.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/floridas-welfare-drug-testing-costs-more-than-it-saves/
-------
Under the rules of the program, the state must reimburse recipients who receive negative test results. The state paid about $1,140 for the 38 negative tests, while saving less than $240 a month by denying benefits over the two positive tests.
----
that is the most current numbers. The same results are found in every month of testing - lots of money paid out to reimburse testing costs, little or no savings because there aren't any people to kick out of the program.


http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2...ting-yields-2-percent-positive-res-ar-252458/
- lots of good info in this article.

so far, the numbers are showing that less than 2% of the people tested are drug users, a rate actually lower than the general population which is between 6% and 8%.

The state paid about $1,140.00 for 38 negative tests. 2 of the 38 were positive and the state is only saving a little less than $240? That's $240.00 a month which equals a yearly savings of around $5760.00. The more intrusive welfare is the bigger the incentive to get a job and get off of welfare. 2 out of 38 is 5% of the recipients using drugs.......so far. It also identifies the ones who need help and closer monitoring for the children's sake. I am all for it. As a nurse I get random drug tests quite frequently, once I got two in the same day because I work 2 jobs. It's the price I pay for earning my paycheck. I think it is small price to pay for free food, medical, and money and all of the programs that help you get back on your feet.

 

[dainerra]

Yeah, save $5760 a year, sounds like a good deal. Until you figure that even one employee (and they have to hire more than one to oversee the program) is going to make at least 4X that much money. Then take into account that the cost of reimbursing for the negative tests is going to be several times that a year as well. So, already you are looking at this "money saving" program costing a large sum every year.

Honestly, I've never worked anywhere where they did random drug tests. At WDW, we had to do one pre-hire. After that, only if you were involved in a worker's comp claim and your supervisor requested it. My husband worked in law enforcement, no random drug tests for him either. Only if you were involved in an incident that was being investigated.

It's not the program itself I have a problem with, actually. It's the way it's being sold to the public. Save money because "everyone" knows that all welfare recipients are a bunch of deadbeat losers who are using your tax money to buy dope.

 

[chickened]

There are other options than working for someone else. You can make as much or as little as you want, that is the beauty of this country.

I can't speak for any one else's situation, but I was on welfare for a time in FL... before the drug testing law.

My husband had been out of work for two years. Every day he walked to the bus stop and looked for a job. He was a commercial/residential electrician, but hadn't been able to find a job at a McD's. I was a dog groomer but wasn't making enough to support our family.

Welfare, to put it bluntly, is not enough for the average family to survive. Cost of living has increased, but the checks have not. Government housing had a waiting list, so we were rented a one bedroom. Just that was more than half my income. Food stamps paid for about half out monthly groceries. Every bit helped, but I had two boys and a husband to feed. I "splurged" on frozen vegetables and real meat/chicken. I refused to by that boxed crap when dry rice and beans was cheaper. But produce would kill any budget I had. Bread and cereal were not options.

We paid for a cell phone because it was cheaper than a house line and we had applications out. And yes- it was a new snazzy phone, because it was free with the contract.

We paid for internet because so many places were online applications only and the library had a two hour daily limit. He'd also take any day jobs he could find on craigslist.

My husband had to turn down jobs because the part time job they were offering was less than the government help. Make Work Pay sounds great, but we couldn't wait for tax time to get that. It no longer exists, anyways.

The system is broken. They do make it hard to get off of it. We got lucky and my husband was able to find good work in an entirely new career. Most of my friends- good, hard working people, are still stuck because there are no jobs. No will hire full time because they have to pay for health care. If you have kids, daycare is sometimes too expensive to make a 25hour a week job worth it. Daycare makes you pay for a 40hour week, no matter what. And the child care program is a joke. It's a two year waiting list.

Drug testing isn't going to fix/change anything. We wouldn't have had to worry about it, but that's a non issue. All it would have done is taken a day out of my husband's time. We didn't HAVE $80 to pay for that testing. Yes, we would have been reimbursed. Still didn't have it. That was my gas to get to my job($50 a week). Or the power bill. Or RENT.

If everyone is so mad their tax dollars are going to pay for welfare, fix welfare. Make companies pay a living wage. Fl minimum wage is $7.67/hr. That just went up at the end of last year. After taxes in the average part time job that's $140/wk. A single person (which, in FL wouldn't be on welfare anyways. It a set amount a year, and families with kids are first served) can survive on that.

If you're so upset about a social program, stop suggesting socialist solutions.

 

[chickened]

Drug testing is not the silver bullitt that fixes alll as some presume we think it will do. It is a combination of things and employment is the answer.

As long as there are alternatives to working hard for what you want/need you will have folks taking the freebies, human nature.

I could quit work tomorrow, file for a mortage bailout and blame someone else for my inability to pay, sign up for welfare, foodstamps, emergency assistance, free medical (in Oregon) stand on the freeway onramp with a sign calling myself a vet and beg while suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee on my junk and talking on my free phone. Any reason why we have a welfare problem and people are mad about it?