Dutch Bantams Breed Thread

[BDutch]

I have 3 DB hens of different colors ( pyle, lavender and light brown partridge) They got chicks from pyle rooster.

The chicks where pyle, light brown, (from 2 mothers)
splash and black (from the lavender mother),
this is all correct.

After about 8 weeks the chicks vary in size. The biggest one is twice the size of the smallest ( who had a cold). Will this chick stay smaller? Or is it likely that it will grow up faster/longer now the cold is over? Or is the variation because the race is not pure dutch bantam. ..?

At first the leggs of the white chick were yellow. The leggs of the black (with a llittle brown) where black. But after a few weeks they started to get blue. Does this mean that the adults are not pure DB ore is it normal that the colour of the leggs change. ..?

 

[RIR-YELLOWLEGS]

I have 3 DB hens of different colors ( pyle, lavender and light brown partridge) They got chicks from pyle rooster.

The chicks where pyle, light brown, (from 2 mothers)
splash and black (from the lavender mother),
this is all correct.

After about 8 weeks the chicks vary in size. The biggest one is twice the size of the smallest ( who had a cold). Will this chick stay smaller? Or is it likely that it will grow up faster/longer now the cold is over? Or is the variation because the race is not pure dutch bantam. ..?

At first the leggs of the white chick were yellow. The leggs of the black (with a llittle brown) where black. But after a few weeks they started to get blue. Does this mean that the adults are not pure DB ore is it normal that the colour of the leggs change. ..?

I sure simeone that raises DB can answer this question I am raising RIRs and the legs started light yellow on my larger chicks they are getting more yellow my young chicks 8 weeks their legs started a very pale light reddish brown and now are getting yellow with each passing day .

 

[JeanR]

Oh dear! There are basic rules about color breeding. The Pyle male and female are the only ones to be bred together for correct color of their offspring. And even Pyle is not easy to have correct clear white in many of their chicks. Few Pyle breeders keep breeding them for along time, as too many are not suitable for showing or breeding. And it is such a spectacular variety! Some breeders of Pyle Dutch, do an out-cross to Light Brown (patrijs) and then breed the offspring back to Pyle. This may produce correct color Pyle, but is not recommended by all Pyle breeders. It is a difficult variety to breed with correct color pattern. Still it is a pleasure to try! The Lavender (Parelgrijs) female needs a Lavender or Black male, and the Patrijs hen needs a patrijs or blauw patrijs male. Leg color may change with maturity, but may not be what you hope for. And plumage color will not be "exhibition" or breeding quality for the cross variety chicks. Still, they will be lovely backyard bantams and to be enjoyed, even if not to breed salable offspring. Size is probably inherited from background of the birds. Unrelated breeding lines can produce chicks of "hybrid vigor" that will be larger at maturity, but still suitable for breeding, if related line birds can be obtained. Sometimes slow growing chicks eventually are of normal size at a year of age. You will enjoy learning about breeding DUTCH and with one of the dearest bantam breeds! Best of luck to you! My Dutch Bantams all originally came from several breeders in The Netherlands , in just several varieties, but what a JOY!



Have you checked the Website of the Netherlands? www.hollandsekriel.nl/

 

[Jimmy Ponds]

I have a friend who is looking for the Khaki Dutch Bantam. Can anyone help me locate some eggs for him? Thanks.

 

[JeanR]

There are no Khaki Dutch Bantams in the US/Canada. We cannot "make" them and have a Dutch Bantam. Any cross to another bantam breed with the Chocolate/Khaki genes is not compatible with the TYPE in Dutch Bantams. The Black Dutch is an example. None were imported and they were made with OEGB, Black Rosecombs, other bantams in Black. They still, after more than 20 years, do not fit the Standards accepted by ABA and APA for the DUTCH. White, same, none imported, the crosses have disappeared: Blue, Self Blue, Cuckoo, the same. There are some, but they do not meet the Standard TYPE of Dutch, that makes them unique and different from all other Bantam breeds!. Varieties are bred by rules--mongrels are produced by crosses of color genes that are not acceptable, and the offspring cannot be considered "breeding birds". Even in The Netherlands, new breeders have not followed those genetic rules, and some "new" varieties are very poor DUTCH TYPE. They disappear in a few years, with few breeders and exhibitors, and knowledge of the best Dutch type--the Khaki Dutch I have seen, are very good Dutch TYPE, beautiful bantams!

It took nearly 50 years to produce the TRUE DUTCH, from pictures painted and drawn by C.S Th van Gink, (most around 1910-14) perhaps the only poultry Breed that was developed from pictures, with endless trials, until the final Dutch were produced in the late 1940s and early 1950s that gave us the present correct "van Gink" Dutch, that with small changes, became the Standard Language description of our distinctly DUTCH of today. In 1913, van Gink painted pictures of what he called Speckled Dutch but were Mille Fleur, very good pattern. However, there were NONE and it was 1990 before Jan Voets, in the Netherlands, put the color into Dutch, by using DUTCH birds in Wheaten, Buff Columbian, Cuckoo, for Dutch TYPE, but took the color from Belgian d'uccles and German Rosecombs. Then is was a project shared with several other breeders to produce the numbers required for selection over 10 years, and then a few years more before they were accepted as an approved variety in The Netherlands. It will be 10 years before serious breeders could have ours "approved" in Dutch. Meantime, they ARE Dutch, but not in numbers that meet the STandard language. They are NOT Rosecombs or Belgian--but still have remnants of those bantam breeds--and the few that were chosen to start the variety in Dutch, were closest to Dutch TYPE and not best Rosecombs or Belgian.

The Khaki Dutch were made from breeds that are not available in the US, near relatives of Dutch, regional in origin and still maintained in small numbers by breeders in The Netherland--shown just in Regional shows, not often at the largest shows in Holland. We have so much to learn--and it is great pleasure to spend the years doing it!

The US first imports were in only several varieties with few imports in the 1970s. Immediately the few breeders started the outcrossing to other breeds of bantams we had in the US--and lost some of the most important parts of the TYPE--leg length, must be SHORT, wing size and length--must be large, carried LOW. just not touching the ground, rounded tips swept back to almost touch under the tail-- and rounded back into hackle and up the tail. Ear lobes must be pure white, quite small and smooth and oblong to almond shape. Saddle is broad and covered in plentiful LONG saddle hackle that connects up to the tail. Lesser sickles have pointed tips. There are more descriptions that separate Dutch from other bantam breeds, and serious breeders will continue to select for breeding, those birds that show fewest or NONE of the characteristics of other breeds that lingers in many flocks. GOOD RECORDS will help keep the Dutch as a distinct breed and in demand (that usually exceeds the supply of correct birds!) Never an end to study of the breed and the Genetics of their breeding, color and type.

There have been few imports, since the late 1970s, and the first and major importer (long passed away) gave his breeding flock away, as pet bantams, as he could not handle the outcrossing and change of his beloved bantam! US restrictions make if almost impossible to bring in birds at present--maybe it will change in time??? My first imports were in 1992 and in late 1990s. Mille Fleurs were imported (just 5 birds) in 2001, and because their originator in Holland, used the color genes from German Rosecombs--they are still a work in progress (earlobes main faults, but are, with selection, getting smaller, flatter, and DUTCH--but takes serious breeders, who will select only the best for breeding--to reach the Standard, that they have now reached in Holland/Germany and several other European countries.

 

[bantambury]

picked up chicks at tractor supply back in april...im assuming they are dutch bantams. ill post some pics later

 

[Jimmy Ponds]

JeanR, thanks for the great information!!

 

[JeanR]

From the pictures, they look like crossbreds. They do look Dutch, but show OEGB characteristics. (long shanks, not body type, even for young Dutch birds, back and tails OEGB, not Dutch, combs poor and too large combs and wattles, for birds under a year or more old--no fronts, ear lobes indicate OEGB cross). They also look like some "Hatchery" dutch. There is a pair of Light Browns and a pair of Cream Light Browns. To keep the varieties, the Light browns and Cream Light Browns should not be bred together. If these should have appeared, in my pens, for me, these would be giveaways--as lovely backyard bantams, and not as Dutch or as breeding birds--(sorry, not nice to say)--since you will enjoy them and that is far more important (unless you expected show or breeding birds in real DUTCH?) They have no value as DUTCH but may become "best buddies" for you--and that is what we love about DUTCH.

 

[Hockeychick]

Hi Everyone,

This is Ronnie. He was supposed to be a Serama, but he doesn't look it to me. Would you say Dutch, or OEGB?

Thanks!

 

[JeanR]

Well, he is neither Serama or Dutch, but is a mix of maybe several breeds, including Dutch/Serama/OEGB/ other(Phoenix?)? People think that Serama is just small, or that a bantam with white ear lobes is Dutch, but there is so much more to each breed than one thing that you can see!!!!!!!! The body, plumage type is not dutch and the plumage color is also not Dutch. Seramas comes in MANY variety mixes, only a few breed true. The Serama breeders are working hard to sort out the many plumage patterns and colors, and have a few that can be entered at Shows by named variety. The Dutch Bantams in the US/Can have few varieties that are acceptable. These pretty birds exhibit none of them. If these birds are not named as a BREED, no harm, are enjoyable lovely bantams--forget about naming a breed, not important unless you wish to become a "BREEDER" of any bantams by their Standard descriptions. Interesting birds, lovely colors and the Cream genes that make one of the pairs is seen in few breeds in the US/Can, but in many European breeds of bantams and large fowl, as well. Enjoy them as beautiful backyard banties. I like them, but would never keep them myself, as I want a pure breed (costs the same to feed and house) as they can be displayed at shows and fairs--and youngsters love to work with them, and win prizes.