eating your pet open discussion

[Andria3232]

Applying the emotion "love" to a pet is a bit over the top for me.  I "love" my wife.  I "love" my children.  I don't "love" my German Shorthair Pointer.  That's a little creepy to me.

I haven't made it through all of the posts, so I am not sure how much more has been said. I am curious though... are you saying that the love you feel for your wife is the same love you feel for your children?? I do not have kids, but the love I have for my parents certainly isn't the same kind of love I have for my fiance. I feel that there are multiple kinds of love. I can also say that I do love my dogs. They are a huge part of my life.

None of this would be an issue if chickens weren't deliscious.


We can't eat our pets, but we can kidnap and fry their embryonic children and that's not taboo at all.


Every egg you eat, you're consuming and aborted baby chick.


Never got to grow up, never got to be cool.

I can see what your getting at but don't forget that the eggs need to be fertile in order for an embryo to be possible. So for the many people out there choosing to eat their roosters, the eggs are obviously not fertile... I would much rather eat them then let them sit and become rotten

 

[ashlieneevel]

I read this entire thread and felt that merited giving my opinion on the subject.

The short version is "If you can do it, do it, If you can't, don't, but at least learn the way to do it so you know how should you ever have to."

The long version is:

I completely understand a person's aversion to having to take the life of an animal that you have watched grow, and/or to whom you have developed some sort of relationship with. I think there has probably always been people who have felt this way, but I think the amount of people that feel this way today is due to the western world's reliance on the modern supermarket. The modern supermarket has awarded such an extreme amount of disconnect from what food actually is and where it comes from that we don't recognize that the piece of meat wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam tray was really once a living breathing thing or we do realize it, but we willfully ignore that inconvenient fact because when it comes into our possession it is unrecognizable for what it truly was and we like the taste.

I myself love nothing more than a double bacon cheeseburger, but I really don't want to think about the cute piglet and doe eyed cow it once was before it got to my plate. I think that is a problem though. I think in the long run we are doing ourselves and the ones that come after us a great disservice by not truly learning and appreciating what are food is, where it comes from, and what it takes to get it to a point to where it is usable to us as a food source. The grocery store is both a blessing and a curse. I think that at the very least we owe it to ourselves to at least know how to process our own food even if we choose to not put that knowledge into action at this time. We may have grocery stores today, but you never know what tomorrow may bring or what you may have to do to ensure you and your family's survival. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything but the truth is you really dont know what will happen tomorrow but the one thing you do know about tomorrow is you're going to want to make sure you have something to eat.

I freely admit I was one of those people who insisted "Oh I could never kill one of my animals, they will live out their days naturally." I was also one of those people that was appalled by people killing and eating their own animals. It was savagery I tell ya. Thats what I would think right before i sat down to my meatloaf chicken parm or BLT I was having for dinner that was prepared from that convenient package of meat from the grocery store. I was a hypocrite of the highest order and in many ways i still am but more on that later. One day I had got to thinking about when I was a kid and the fact that I really had no idea that the meat i was eating was once an animal. I knew what i was eating was called chicken and I knew there was an animal called chicken but I never put two and two together. I also remembered when i did make the connection and how disgusted at the thought of it I was, and also the guilt I felt about it, but also how much I really liked and even craved meat. I found myself a "happy medium" and would not eat anything with bones, skin, or fat on it because it would remind me of what I was actually eating. I spent the vast majority of my life eating that way. In all honesty, I still have a problem eating something with bones, skin, or fat. It still kinda creeps me out. Now that i'm older though i think more logically and felt that if i was going to continue eating meat, boneless, skinless, or otherwise, than I should at least understand the process of it all a bit better, and god forbid i actually ever have to go without a grocery store im still gonna wanna eat so it wouldnt hurt to learn how to feed myself.

So I began reading about people raising their animals for meat and the things they actually had to do to get them to that point and then what they did to do the deed and all that comes after that. OMG it was like reading a horror novel to me but it was also fascinating because this was something that was once common place for everyone and those people never gave it a second thought. Those people who could do this knew how to survive on their own and I couldnt survive without a grocery store. It was a part of who we are as species and was a skill that has kept our species alive all these millennia but was a skill that was no longer common place in our world save for some "farmers out in the boonies." I became more curious and despite how sick i felt by the thought of it all I started watching youtube videos on the dispatching of animals. This was even worse than a horror novel this was a horror movie. I felt that despite watching it being even worse than reading about it i had to push further with it because my problem with it stems from the fact that i was sheltered from the truth. There are times when i still get queasy watching these videos but i keep watching them because i am learning and I am trying to desensitize myself. I am confident that I would now be capable of humanely dispatching a chicken and processing it if I needed to. Thats important to me that I at least know how. I think more people would be more open to learning about it if it weren't for those **** chicken gymnastics they do when they die which quite honestly looks frightening.

All that aside, this still doesn't solve the problem of dealing with animals that you have come to know and love and potentially consider in some form or another as pets. Even after all i've done to try to desensitize myself to it I still have trouble coming to terms with this aspect of it. It can be difficult to not get attached to an animal you've spent a significant amount of time with and then be the one to have to look it in the eye and be the cause of its last breath. This is where i have to force myself to think rationally instead of emotionally which for me is no easy task. I'm a sensitive and emotional person. its just my nature. The thing I keep telling myself regarding this is that this animal has had a much better life with me than it likely would have had anywhere else, especially when considering commercial poultry keeping practices that i would otherwise have to participate in by going to the grocery store. I have to tell myself to consider the significant cost of having to keep feeding this animal when it is no longer producing in a way that could be considered equal trade. In my hometown a bag of regular non organic feed goes for 17+tax. If you use any of the "magic numbers" out there on how much a chicken will eat per day you come to just shy of two 50# bags of feed per 1 year of life. (1/4 pound a day .25*365=91.25lbs or the other 10lbs for first 10weeks of life than 1.5 lbs per week thereafter 10lbs + 1.5*42=73lbs) Two bags of feed will cost you 34 bucks plus tax. That means to keep a bird on that isn't giving anything back other then companionship is costing you 34 bucks in feed per year plus tax and whatever their share of bedding and any other incidentals. That may not seem like much when you talk about 1 chicken but when you're thinking in terms of what once was your laying flock that amounts to a goodly amount of money for most people. So it doesn't seem logical to keep spending money with no return when you can do what needs to be done and save yourself from having to buy a chicken from the grocery store who was treated poorly.

Naturally there are going to be people that still no matter what just can't bring themselves to do it and that is completely ok.

Some people really just don't have it in them, but you need to ask yourself on a deep and personal level the reason why you can't. For me, its because I have been so far removed from it all that I feel i would have a hard time taking my heart and emotions out of the equation and seeing the animal for what it is...food and because i find the way the chicken moves when it dies really scary even though I know the reason why its happening. That is my truth about why i would have a problem doing it. This is something I want to work past. You don't have to but I want to. Also even if I just can't bring myself to eat something i have had that close of a relationship with I still have to consider the very real possibility that something may happen to one of those chickens where I as their keeper must do what is necessary to end their suffering. That is my responsibility as their keeper no matter how uncomfortable it makes me feel. I think that is something that people new to chickens don't consider or don't want to consider that they really should. You can't always rush the bird to the vet. Life doesn't always work that way.

So in closing, I completely understand how some of you feel about not being able to do it because I struggle with it also. If I'm honest with myself though its not because I couldn't possibly bring myself to do it because I love them so much, its just that im scared to do it because the process looks scary and sounds scary and I feel guilt. By exploring this aspect of poultry keeping I have gained such a deep level of respect and admiration for the people that can do this. They are human just as I am and likely at some point had the same fears as me, but they managed to work passed them. I want to also. I'm ashamed that I was so judgmental in the past and turned my nose up at the most basic of survival skills that sustained our ancestors. I don't know if I will ever kill a bird for food or not but I'm grateful that i took myself out of my comfort zone to at least learn how. if you can do it, do it, If you can't don't, but at least learn the way to do it so you know how should you ever have to.


Aaaand that is my LENGTHY opinion on the subject. I've given this a lot of thought. I aspire to one day breed certain chickens and to do that requires culling so I have to work through my issues with this. If I can't bring myself to do it to feed myself how will I ever reconcile myself to do it just because a bird doesn't possess a trait I want or because I have too many baby roos.


If you read this whole thing god bless ya! LOL

Ashlie

 

[Outpost JWB]

I eat my chickens. Some even have/had names. They all look the same in a ziplock bag, skinned and frozen. I know what they have ate. They have not been medicated. I am not feeding my family antibiotics and growth hormones from store bought chickens. My chickens have lived a good life and were not tortured, neglected, or butchered inhumanely. They were purchased or hatched out with the intent to feed my family. Livestock on our farm. Not pets.

Not knocking anyone who will not eat their chickens. To each their own. Your farm is not my barn lot

 

[leliadax]

Feed themem, name them & love them to pieces and in the end eat them. If you raise them you know what goes in them and its so much better than eating any products processed in China or any other country then shipped here for us to consume. The "Chinese chicken processing" thing scares the pants off me, thats why I just got started with chickens. Now if I just had a cow or hog but rabbits & birds will have to do.

 

[IHeartPoultry]

I feel strongly about not eating my birds, or any animal of that manner. Yes, we do feed them, do we spare our own life to do so? No, we spend 10$ on a bag of poultry food.
I feel each and every life is to precious to "waste" on just some food, that being said, food is important (duh) but I feel people can get their food in a more kind way, through plants, (pet) chicken eggs, and (pet) dairy cows.
So that's how I feel on the subject

 

[yyz0yyz0]

This is a topic currently being discussed in our house. We have 6hens that are slowing down on egg production and 5 up and coming future egg layers to replace them.

We've already eaten a rooster last year that went psycho on us and starting attacking everyone. Our current roo is starting to attack under certain circumstances, I would try to break him of it but we put 12 eggs under a broody this spring and only got one chick. So our Roo is not even fertilizing the eggs very well. Put the low fertility together with future attacks on humans and he's going to freezer camp this weekend.

As far as the older hens that's where my wife is starting to have second thoughts. Personally I'm not going to feed hens that are not producing and I'm also not going to give away(for someone else to eat) hens that have stopped producing. So that leaves butchering them myself, my wife has already said she wants no part of that. As long as she only sees processed chicken parts/meat she'll be ok with if for now.

So my answer is that we have eaten our chickens and the plan is to continue and increase but only time will tell if we can do it.

 

[yyz0yyz0]

I read this entire thread and felt that merited giving my opinion on the subject.

The short version is "If you can do it, do it, If you can't, don't, but at least learn the way to do it so you know how should you ever have to."

The long version is:

I completely understand a person's aversion to having to take the life of an animal that you have watched grow, and/or to whom you have developed some sort of relationship with. I think there has probably always been people who have felt this way, but I think the amount of people that feel this way today is due to the western world's reliance on the modern supermarket. The modern supermarket has awarded such an extreme amount of disconnect from what food actually is and where it comes from that we don't recognize that the piece of meat wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam tray was really once a living breathing thing or we do realize it, but we willfully ignore that inconvenient fact because when it comes into our possession it is unrecognizable for what it truly was and we like the taste.

I myself love nothing more than a double bacon cheeseburger, but I really don't want to think about the cute piglet and doe eyed cow it once was before it got to my plate. I think that is a problem though. I think in the long run we are doing ourselves and the ones that come after us a great disservice by not truly learning and appreciating what are food is, where it comes from, and what it takes to get it to a point to where it is usable to us as a food source. The grocery store is both a blessing and a curse. I think that at the very least we owe it to ourselves to at least know how to process our own food even if we choose to not put that knowledge into action at this time. We may have grocery stores today, but you never know what tomorrow may bring or what you may have to do to ensure you and your family's survival. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything but the truth is you really dont know what will happen tomorrow but the one thing you do know about tomorrow is you're going to want to make sure you have something to eat.

I freely admit I was one of those people who insisted "Oh I could never kill one of my animals, they will live out their days naturally." I was also one of those people that was appalled by people killing and eating their own animals. It was savagery I tell ya. Thats what I would think right before i sat down to my meatloaf chicken parm or BLT I was having for dinner that was prepared from that convenient package of meat from the grocery store. I was a hypocrite of the highest order and in many ways i still am but more on that later. One day I had got to thinking about when I was a kid and the fact that I really had no idea that the meat i was eating was once an animal. I knew what i was eating was called chicken and I knew there was an animal called chicken but I never put two and two together. I also remembered when i did make the connection and how disgusted at the thought of it I was, and also the guilt I felt about it, but also how much I really liked and even craved meat. I found myself a "happy medium" and would not eat anything with bones, skin, or fat on it because it would remind me of what I was actually eating. I spent the vast majority of my life eating that way. In all honesty, I still have a problem eating something with bones, skin, or fat. It still kinda creeps me out. Now that i'm older though i think more logically and felt that if i was going to continue eating meat, boneless, skinless, or otherwise, than I should at least understand the process of it all a bit better, and god forbid i actually ever have to go without a grocery store im still gonna wanna eat so it wouldnt hurt to learn how to feed myself.

So I began reading about people raising their animals for meat and the things they actually had to do to get them to that point and then what they did to do the deed and all that comes after that. OMG it was like reading a horror novel to me but it was also fascinating because this was something that was once common place for everyone and those people never gave it a second thought. Those people who could do this knew how to survive on their own and I couldnt survive without a grocery store. It was a part of who we are as species and was a skill that has kept our species alive all these millennia but was a skill that was no longer common place in our world save for some "farmers out in the boonies." I became more curious and despite how sick i felt by the thought of it all I started watching youtube videos on the dispatching of animals. This was even worse than a horror novel this was a horror movie. I felt that despite watching it being even worse than reading about it i had to push further with it because my problem with it stems from the fact that i was sheltered from the truth. There are times when i still get queasy watching these videos but i keep watching them because i am learning and I am trying to desensitize myself. I am confident that I would now be capable of humanely dispatching a chicken and processing it if I needed to. Thats important to me that I at least know how. I think more people would be more open to learning about it if it weren't for those **** chicken gymnastics they do when they die which quite honestly looks frightening.

All that aside, this still doesn't solve the problem of dealing with animals that you have come to know and love and potentially consider in some form or another as pets. Even after all i've done to try to desensitize myself to it I still have trouble coming to terms with this aspect of it. It can be difficult to not get attached to an animal you've spent a significant amount of time with and then be the one to have to look it in the eye and be the cause of its last breath. This is where i have to force myself to think rationally instead of emotionally which for me is no easy task. I'm a sensitive and emotional person. its just my nature. The thing I keep telling myself regarding this is that this animal has had a much better life with me than it likely would have had anywhere else, especially when considering commercial poultry keeping practices that i would otherwise have to participate in by going to the grocery store. I have to tell myself to consider the significant cost of having to keep feeding this animal when it is no longer producing in a way that could be considered equal trade. In my hometown a bag of regular non organic feed goes for 17+tax. If you use any of the "magic numbers" out there on how much a chicken will eat per day you come to just shy of two 50# bags of feed per 1 year of life. (1/4 pound a day .25*365=91.25lbs or the other 10lbs for first 10weeks of life than 1.5 lbs per week thereafter 10lbs + 1.5*42=73lbs) Two bags of feed will cost you 34 bucks plus tax. That means to keep a bird on that isn't giving anything back other then companionship is costing you 34 bucks in feed per year plus tax and whatever their share of bedding and any other incidentals. That may not seem like much when you talk about 1 chicken but when you're thinking in terms of what once was your laying flock that amounts to a goodly amount of money for most people. So it doesn't seem logical to keep spending money with no return when you can do what needs to be done and save yourself from having to buy a chicken from the grocery store who was treated poorly.

Naturally there are going to be people that still no matter what just can't bring themselves to do it and that is completely ok.

Some people really just don't have it in them, but you need to ask yourself on a deep and personal level the reason why you can't. For me, its because I have been so far removed from it all that I feel i would have a hard time taking my heart and emotions out of the equation and seeing the animal for what it is...food and because i find the way the chicken moves when it dies really scary even though I know the reason why its happening. That is my truth about why i would have a problem doing it. This is something I want to work past. You don't have to but I want to. Also even if I just can't bring myself to eat something i have had that close of a relationship with I still have to consider the very real possibility that something may happen to one of those chickens where I as their keeper must do what is necessary to end their suffering. That is my responsibility as their keeper no matter how uncomfortable it makes me feel. I think that is something that people new to chickens don't consider or don't want to consider that they really should. You can't always rush the bird to the vet. Life doesn't always work that way.

So in closing, I completely understand how some of you feel about not being able to do it because I struggle with it also. If I'm honest with myself though its not because I couldn't possibly bring myself to do it because I love them so much, its just that im scared to do it because the process looks scary and sounds scary and I feel guilt. By exploring this aspect of poultry keeping I have gained such a deep level of respect and admiration for the people that can do this. They are human just as I am and likely at some point had the same fears as me, but they managed to work passed them. I want to also. I'm ashamed that I was so judgmental in the past and turned my nose up at the most basic of survival skills that sustained our ancestors. I don't know if I will ever kill a bird for food or not but I'm grateful that i took myself out of my comfort zone to at least learn how. if you can do it, do it, If you can't don't, but at least learn the way to do it so you know how should you ever have to.


Aaaand that is my LENGTHY opinion on the subject. I've given this a lot of thought. I aspire to one day breed certain chickens and to do that requires culling so I have to work through my issues with this. If I can't bring myself to do it to feed myself how will I ever reconcile myself to do it just because a bird doesn't possess a trait I want or because I have too many baby roos.


If you read this whole thing god bless ya! LOL

Ashlie

Ashlie,
i completely agree with your arguments on this subject, especially the part about the gymnastics after the killing. I had to dispatch a psycho roo last year and I followed the advice of a coworker who grew up on a farm. He said to just put two nail into a stump so they form "V" and hold the chicken with one hand by the feet and wing tips, put the head in the V and pull back to stretch the neck and hold in place then just sever the head. What he forgot to mention was the gymnastics that occur after this step. It freaked me out pretty much but now that I'm aware of it i'll have a better grip on the bird.

The purpose of this story was to point out the benefit of a killing cone. think of a orange road cone that you cut off the top so the hole is bigger. You hang this somewhere upside down and place the bird in the cone so it's head hangs out the hole at the bottom. The rest of the body is held securely by the cone so there are no gymnastics to speak of. So if you ever have to do this for your family consider the cone method.

 

[Beekissed]

I consider eating my chickens just good recycling protocol and the ultimate kindness to my good animal. An old hen will die anyway, usually of a reproductive issue that is uncomfortable to her so the more kind thing to do is give her a quicker, less stressful end and reuse her parts for food for another creature. The fact is, we all die, they all die....how they do it is the only thing somewhat in our control and we can control how kindly we treat our own animals by insuring they die without going through illness or discomfort.

I don't find it a bit kind to let an old pet die from "old age" when 9 times out of 10 that requires a period of suffering before they die and that is particularly true for chickens. True kindness is having the strength to help them die a good death BEFORE they have to suffer, not wait until they are suffering before one does something about it.

 

[ashlieneevel]

Ashlie,
i completely agree with your arguments on this subject, especially the part about the gymnastics after the killing. I had to dispatch a psycho roo last year and I followed the advice of a coworker who grew up on a farm. He said to just put two nail into a stump so they form "V" and hold the chicken with one hand by the feet and wing tips, put the head in the V and pull back to stretch the neck and hold in place then just sever the head. What he forgot to mention was the gymnastics that occur after this step. It freaked me out pretty much but now that I'm aware of it i'll have a better grip on the bird.

The purpose of this story was to point out the benefit of a killing cone. think of a orange road cone that you cut off the top so the hole is bigger. You hang this somewhere upside down and place the bird in the cone so it's head hangs out the hole at the bottom. The rest of the body is held securely by the cone so there are no gymnastics to speak of. So if you ever have to do this for your family consider the cone method.

I'm familiar with the cones and that is exactly what i'd use. They still go through their normal processes but its restricted in the cone so its not extreme but you still hear the sounds of the movement just no cartwheels and back flips lol. I imagine once i've done it a few times it won't bother me anymore. Its just the getting over the initial fear to do it to begin with.

 

[Beekissed]

A 2 gal. bleach jug is easier to come by and conforms to the shape of the bird better due to the "shoulders" on the jug. Will hold any size of chicken, even the 10-12 lb CX birds.