Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[AletaG]

All chickens are really this way. The hens keep laying, but they also eat more an more with each passing season, making those eggs more and more expensive. Although holding onto exception producers into old age as breeders in order to retain and promote their genetics is important, the tops for maintaining a groups of birds for profitable egg production is 2 years--heritage or otherwise. Indeed, for a breeder, one idea make be to keep all of the pullets in a laying flock for a year, selling the eggs, and then moving yearling hens forward into breeding pens after they've proven themselves.

Right... but I was trying to say that "profitability" depends on what you are selling. I'm way too small to make a profit selling eggs for the table. Even if I had 30 hens, and cycled them out every year or so, there wouldn't be much point. I'm more interested in the folks I meet who are upset that their Orpington had a blowout after 2.5yrs and now Esmerelda is buried under the new apple tree with a plaque bearing her name; and now they are wary of buying another hen. If Esmerelda had been bred more to give 200 eggs a year steady for 5 or 6 or more years instead of 300 or so for 2, these would be happier folks. My flock should feed me and my family meat and eggs cheaper than I can get at the store (check) that's money back in my pocket... then, sell hatching eggs and chicks, and sell my non-breeder but still laying older hens (that make sense, thank you!). Not what he was after.
First I'd heard, though that the older a hen gets, the higher the feed-to-egg amounts... are there numbers for this? I'd like to know the amounts for figuring out MY break point

 

[BGMatt]

Right... but I was trying to say that "profitability" depends on what you are selling. I'm way too small to make a profit selling eggs for the table. Even if I had 30 hens, and cycled them out every year or so, there wouldn't be much point. I'm more interested in the folks I meet who are upset that their Orpington had a blowout after 2.5yrs and now Esmerelda is buried under the new apple tree with a plaque bearing her name; and now they are wary of buying another hen. If Esmerelda had been bred more to give 200 eggs a year steady for 5 or 6 or more years instead of 300 or so for 2, these would be happier folks. My flock should feed me and my family meat and eggs cheaper than I can get at the store (check) that's money back in my pocket... then, sell hatching eggs and chicks, and sell my non-breeder but still laying older hens (that make sense, thank you!). Not what he was after.
First I'd heard, though that the older a hen gets, the higher the feed-to-egg amounts... are there numbers for this? I'd like to know the amounts for figuring out MY break point

It's because she lays less each year but eats the same amount of food. No real numbers on it because it'd vary by strain. Poultry keeping is very rarely, like very rarely profitable. I think the secret would be in selling chicks and hatching eggs since you don't have a lot of extra money invested in growing them out. You wouldn't have to have a lot of birds to do so, even with super costly organic feed it costs me about a max $1 a week to keep adult birds. If you have let's say two breeding pens you're going to sell eggs or chicks out of, both are quads, so you're getting at least 2 dozen a week, going rate at least in this area is around $25 a dozen for hatching eggs, most breeders that sell chicks get about $6-10 (guys like Urch, Horstman, others) a chick if you wanna go that way. You're not gonna make a ton of money, but you'll pay the feed bill for them and maybe the rest of your flock (because obviously if those birds eggs are all getting sold or hatched for selling then you're not getting eggs from them for yourself)

Edit: The trick is the marketing to make people want to buy from you.

Edit 2: My brother just pointed out to me you'd have to double expenses because you're probably only really going to be able to get eggs to sell and chicks to sell a maximum of 6 months out of the year, so the expenses would be double for the part of year you don't have that option. Although you might still be able to sell extra eating eggs to help offset that.

 

[AletaG]

It's because she lays less each year but eats the same amount of food. No real numbers on it because it'd vary by strain. Poultry keeping is very rarely, like very rarely profitable. You're not gonna make a ton of money, but you'll pay the feed bill for them and maybe the rest of your flock (because obviously if those birds eggs are all getting sold or hatched for selling then you're not getting eggs from them for yourself)

Edit: The trick is the marketing to make people want to buy from you.

Edit 2: My brother just pointed out to me you'd have to double expenses because you're probably only really going to be able to get eggs to sell and chicks to sell a maximum of 6 months out of the year, so the expenses would be double for the part of year you don't have that option. Although you might still be able to sell extra eating eggs to help offset that.

Agreed. Part of the reason (other than emotional attachment to a long dead RIR from many summers ago as a kid) got interested in Heritage birds was the longer more even productivity curve they appear to have. Will have to see if it pencils out. Back when we only kept 4-6 hens it was always worthwhile. It cost us like 30cents a dozen for eggs from our own hens(about 8yrs ago), and it was priceless to always have a random gift to people that almost always loved getting fresh eggs. It was satisfying. Can't put much of a $ on that. Go Galt!
<darn, can you tell we just watched Atlas Shrugged last night??>

 

[capayvalleychick]

My flock should feed me and my family meat and eggs cheaper than I can get at the store (check) that's money back in my pocket...

I don't think that your own eggs and especially meat end up being less expensive than what you can buy in a store. I think the quality of home raised meat & eggs is superior to production raised commercial products. Some stores offer low price chicken & eggs. You could maybe do it if you skimped on feed, but that wouldn't give you birds healthy enough for breeding.

 

[cybercat]

You are so right there Kim. Raising your own is not cheaper than store bought. BUT the quality and flavor is SO much better. I sell some eggs when I have them and I hatch chicks. I make way more hatching chicks than sell eggs. Working on one breed that lays well helps. I live in farm country with many small homesteads. When I sell I always have standing orders for a small flock of chicks. I have also has huge orders but turn them down as I am not breeding for numbers but to improve my stock.
I free range here because I can. We have few predators, mostly hawks occasional fox and one time bear. But I now have 2 dogs here and that has helped alot instead of one. These are not LGD but farm dogs. Free ranging helps cut feed cost. Also not buying layer but loose grains and mixing my own cuts feed costs too. I do not use soy in my feed but flied pea for higher protien with many other grains. Bugs are plenty here so the meat protien is taken care of that way till winter. Winter is the hard time when feed costs go way up since birds get little forage. But we plant for it here now and are storing to help cut down that cost.

 

[AletaG]

I don't think that your own eggs and especially meat end up being less expensive than what you can buy in a store. I think the quality of home raised meat & eggs is superior to production raised commercial products. Some stores offer low price chicken & eggs. You could maybe do it if you skimped on feed, but that wouldn't give you birds healthy enough for breeding.

You are so right there Kim. Raising your own is not cheaper than store bought.
I free range here because I can. We have few predators, mostly hawks occasional fox and one time bear. But I now have 2 dogs here and that has helped alot instead of one. These are not LGD but farm dogs. Free ranging helps cut feed cost. Also not buying layer but loose grains and mixing my own cuts feed costs too. I do not use soy in my feed but flied pea for higher protien with many other grains. Bugs are plenty here so the meat protien is taken care of that way till winter. Winter is the hard time when feed costs go way up since birds get little forage. But we plant for it here now and are storing to help cut down that cost.

I don't agree. We pay .20/lb for rolled or whole barley, then protein supplement with sprouted beans, mealworms etc, which are also pretty cheap. With ranging over the summer our flock is only eating about an ounce from the free-feed feeder and about an ounce (dry weight) of FF per adult bird per day. They sure aren't starving, or they'd eat more from the 'always available' supply. I use an 18% prot. general purpose feed in that, but given they don't eat much from it so far... will probably switch to mixing my own. And during breeding season, I know will need to up the quality quotient with the breeding groups, but I'm only going to feed them that nice. Should have the BSF larvae going good by then also. We're gearing up to grow forage, which is at least quintuples the feed per original pound, and adds nutrients. We scour freecycle for peoples fish offal (frozen 2mos then fed), apple drop they don't want to pick up, etc. Those eggs are gonna be under a dollar a dozen. Only 'fail' we've tried so far, is they really don't like crab shell as their calcium source (again, free). They much prefer oyster shell or crushed egg shell. I figure feed costs will probably go up over winter, but it's pretty mild around here. There's no flies, mosquitoes or wasps, but almost every other bug or wiggly is active year 'round.
Just my experience so far. Good luck!

 

[capayvalleychick]

But I now have 2 dogs here and that has helped alot instead of one. These are not LGD but farm dogs.

The farmer's best kept secret ... I have a couple of those myself.

 

[Rhinoman]

I read through the Plymouth Rock thread over the past week or so. They had me but now I'm about to spit the hook. I'm a bit confused. Will Heritage Rocks lay through my New Hampshire winter?

Right now I have 3 Light Brahmas, 3 Dark Brahmas, 5 Black Australorps, 5 Red Star, 1 White Rock, 3 Gold laced Wyandotte's (Mistake Rooster), 1 Buff Rock roo (Meant to order female chick), 1 Jersey Giant roo and One White Crested Polish roo (surprice [female] chick) all from MM. The chickens are a project for me and my six children (ages 15 to 15 mo) to do together. I'm interested in the Heritage breeds, specifically the Rocks. I want an old style flock with chickens that will raise there own young. I think breeding to improve a heritage breed is a great project for my [homeschooled] children (and realize it's lifelong commitment). They can learn about genetics they'll have to solve real world math problems and real world ethical issues. The children have already agreed to eat most of the birds we have now (no way will they allow me to kill Puff [the polish], and there’s a few others). Although I have one big coup I have an old dog run that I can keep spare roos in.

Here’s the thing: there’s no way I’m feeding 20 or so chickens through the winter and BUYING eggs! Is there a Rock breed/line that lay through winter? Is there any Heritage breed that’ll lay through winter? I love RIR's, my wife like Buff Plymouth rocks, she thinks the hatchery roo we have is our prettiest chicken. My 6 year old daughter would like it if we breed Gold Laced Wyandotte's but I'm led to believed they are not good producers. So what if any heritage breed/breeds will lay through winter. I am aware that egg production will drop off we only need eggs for the family?

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[Maggiesdad]

Hatch chicks so your pullets hit point of lay in the months your mature hens take off.
Stockpile eggs for slow months. Work with nature, don't fight it.

 

[AletaG]

So what if any heritage breed/breeds will lay through winter. I am aware that egg production will drop off we only need eggs for the family?\

Hatch chicks so your pullets hit point of lay in the months your mature hens take off.
Stockpile eggs for slow months. Work with nature, don't fight it.

You can rotate your hens into lighted coops; some people light them all, but if you want a long healthy life for the hens, rotating might work. Otherwise, if you want to give them a full season Sabbath, look into using mineral oil for long-term egg storage, or some people freeze. You don't have to be eggless. Good luck!