Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

Talked to a friend yesterday that is a hatching queen--- and eats everything she raises. THe bresse and the red and silver dorking are her best meat producers. ANd her black spanish turkey makes the bourbon red look small.

Joseph-- I did mention to her that you had the white dorkings!!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Just found this thread. So excited to read everything-although it will take me a few days. I have 3 different breeds here but my Orpingtons will be the only ones I am breeding-at least that's the plan for now. I never heard of separating the Roosters unless they are show birds. I will have to check into it since I do have a cockerel-or 2 or 3-not sure yet.

If one is going to breed standard-bred fowl seriously for food and/or exhibition, one needs to separate cockerels and pullets as soon as they can be sexed. I have everything separated by 6 weeks--8 at the latest. The neither gender will grow up to their genetic potential in a mixed flock.

 

[newbie32]

If one is going to breed standard-bred fowl seriously for food and/or exhibition, one needs to separate cockerels and pullets as soon as they can be sexed. I have everything separated by 6 weeks--8 at the latest. The neither gender will grow up to their genetic potential in a mixed flock.

I cant even sex mine! they are 10 weeks old and every time I put pictures in here the redness of 2 of them never shows properly. So all I know for sure is that I have 2 pullets in Buffs and one in Polish. I was thinking of separating the Polish ans Silkies out since I don't want them breeding with the Buffs. One of my Polish is a confirmed Cockerel so I don't want to take the chance.

That being said, I don't want to build a ton of coops either. I spent quite a bit of money on my coop and run and I want my money to eventually make up for itself in eggs and meat. So one more smaller coop was all I was wanting-and that would be for the show birds.

 

[cybercat]

If one is going to breed standard-bred fowl seriously for food and/or exhibition, one needs to separate cockerels and pullets as soon as they can be sexed. I have everything separated by 6 weeks--8 at the latest. The neither gender will grow up to their genetic potential in a mixed flock.

I would like to read documentation on this. Can you please post a link for it. I have not heard of this before that running a mixed gender flock will cause retardation of full growth.

 

[akelley]

I would like to read documentation on this.  Can you please post a link for it.   I have not heard of this before that running a mixed gender flock will cause retardation of full growth. 

I agree. I have never heard this, either, and would love to see the documentation

 

[AletaG]

I haven't seen a consistent smaller egg size in the females that were left with males. Although I have seen more eggs with odd shapes indicating stress that came from the females that were left with the males. And have had some start laying a lot earlier when they were with males the whole time.
Had read about separating the genders but didn't think it would make that big of a size difference. Did it this time mostly to try to stop the cockerel fights. It was a big eye opener this time around to have such a size difference AND not have frequent fights between the males. Everyone is much calmer. It is definitely the way I want to keep going from now on. The difference has really been more noticeable than I thought it would be.

-couldn't find the actual lb diff he posted, I remember seeing it, it's here somewhere...

These are three Java cockerels we (hubby) butchered over the weekend.

The ones on the outsides were the same age - 5 months old. The one on the right dressed out at 4 lb 15.75 oz. The one on the left, the same age, dressed out at 3 lb 12.5 oz.

The middle carcass was a 9 month old cockerel. He dressed out at 4 lb 15.5 oz. He weighed less than the younger bird on the right and I attribute the difference to the fact that the older bird did not get separated from females as early as these 5 months olds did, and so this older bird did nothing but chase females and other males around from 3 months old on. Even after being separated from other birds, he continued to constantly pace the wire trying to get to the other birds and didn't eat nearly as much as the other males that live by themselves eat.

The younger cockerel on the right had a wider keel than the older cockerel in the middle.

The Javas don't have huge breasts like some other birds, but the breast are tender and moist - at least they are the way that I brine and cook them. I brine them since most of our birds that get butchered are older and aren't kept penned in small spaces to fatten up prior to butchering. They do have plenty of meat on their legs, even the birds that have thinner shanks usually have large meaty thighs.

I like to separate the cockerels from the pullets at about 5 - 6 months because the boys really stress out the girls. Also it affects the weight that the cockerels gain when they are running around pestering the pullets. I up the protein in their feed and have them on a grassy pen. They get to free-range for about an hour and a half each evening after I lock up the other free-rangers in their respective pens. They also get grass clippings and more veggies from the garden than the flocks that free-range all day.
The pullets seem to like the separation also...becoming more calm and reach pol more smoothly...in my opinion. I have Wyandotte and Cochin.

I do think it can make a difference in size by gender separating them. There are still some that are smaller than the others, but there is a noticeable difference in size comparing those that stayed all together, and those that got separated into gender housing early vs late separation. When they don't get separated by gender or get separated late, the cockerels spend so much energy running around, and running the females around, that no eats as much as they could be eating, and they run off the calories they do eat. Even our pullets are looking larger this year having separated them from the males.

Ours can only free range when we are out there to supervise - just don't have enough breeders to be able to let them roam free all the time. When not outside with me in the pasture, they are in their giant tractors with approx 10ft/bird space in the runs and 4ft/bird in the coops. This has not changed, we've had this setup since the beginning, even though this is the first time to separate by gender to grow out. We have a whole fleet of these sheds on wheels in the pasture with more to come.

 

[Zanna]

If one is going to breed standard-bred fowl seriously for food and/or exhibition, one needs to separate cockerels and pullets as soon as they can be sexed. I have everything separated by 6 weeks--8 at the latest. The neither gender will grow up to their genetic potential in a mixed flock.

Is your opinion the same if birds are on free-range all daylight hours while growing up (5 weeks or so till starting to act amorous) or does this pertain only to birds that are confined?

 

[akelley]

Thanks for that AletaG!

Definitely food for thought...

I hope you share your experiences if you manage your flock this way.

 

[Arielle]

WHere's bob?? IF anyone can pull out old info from long ago, my bet is on BOb. Or 3 RIvers.

 

[AletaG]

Thanks for that AletaG!
Definitely food for thought...
I hope you share your experiences if you manage your flock this way.

Will do. I've been thoroughly fascinated by this thread. I'm a sucker for this one, the Heritage LF, HRIR, Fermented Feed, Mealworm, and my local one.... I've read most of them from the beginning... it's so fun!

WHere's bob?? IF anyone can pull out old info from long ago, my bet is on BOb. Or 3 RIvers.

Didn't Bob say something about taking a break from this thread recently? He's gotta be busy. Haven't seen the River in a while... Hmmm. Probably show season. It's hittin' hard, BYC on back burner would make sense. Could PM one if you gotta know now, I suppose.