Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Robert Blosl]

The secret to cold weather is ventilation. Thats why the Semi Monitor chicken house was such a hit in its day. Monroe Ba bock use to dub his single comb leghorn males in north New York to avoid the frost bites as it would screw up his fertility when they had frozen combs. He is the one who invented the Babcock 290 rhode island reds and the leghorns that lay ed 300 eggs for commercial farms. Do you know what the Babcock 290 reds are today?

He told me a trick and it worked for me in Wisconsin as my poultry barn was to wet or damp as I had no good ventilation. He said go to the hard ware store and buy some stove pipe and put the pipe about 12 inch's off the floor and put the pipe out the roof of your chicken house. The damp air will go up the pipe as a draft. So I had some 12 inch shelving boards about 16 feet long up in my hay mow that came with the farm. I took the board and made me a 13x14 inch by 16 feet long pipe I went up in the floor of the the hay mow and cut a hole in the floor and stuck the boards down the floor then brought it up one foot as he told me. I mounted the boards so they would stay put and with in a few days my problems where over. The draft was so intense loose feathers would be sucked up the wooden pipe and be laying on the floor of the hay mow.

I also made them a box to roost in and at night I would shut the door and they would stay warm and then open the door be for I would go to work and they would be happy all day long. I had problems with freezing water had to use heaters to keep the water from freezing.

I have thought it over and I think the people who want rose combs over single combs and are worried about frozen combs are new people who never raised a chicken in their life. If you where around your parents or uncles or grand parents you would see what they did and this would be a issue.

I think they are reading allot of these books and don't have a clue what they want in the first place.

Then they end up buying a $35 foam incubator and cant hatch the eggs they buy.

Thanks for your comments and also I still use Vaseline down here on my males combs. It is so humid down here I will get frosted combs when its only 35 degrees. I have had ice on my water cups in the barn at 35 degrees. Don't make sense and also I will have ice on my windshield of my car when I get off from work at 11 P.M. at night and when I start up the car the Temp on the mirror says 36 degrees.

Cant wait till spring it was degrees today. bob

 

[Robert Blosl]

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those are some well fleshed birds. How much did they weigh befor you killed them? bob

 

[Mervin]

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That's very interesting as I live very close to a lake as well, about 200 yards. My yard is very damp and my basement perpetually wet. I consider it very damp around here. As I said, i have had no problems. One thing I did do was put floor boards in the coop. I had wanted to build it with a dirt floor but thought it would get too damp. I'm curious if it has made a difference. I'm not all that concerned about the coldest part of winter now. Generally the below freezing temperatures keep the humidity very low. What concerns me most are they days to come when it is above freezing during the day and below freezing at night. I could see frostbite being a problem during that period even more than the dead of winter.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

just finished catching up on this thread... and will tell u all my 2 cents on frostbite... all my birds are in chicken tractors the smaller ones are 3 sides tin one side wire the larger ones just have 3 sides of tin on one end of the cage... we get 105+ here in the summer so SC breeds tend to grow big combs... but the other day we had 6 degrees here(coldest ive seen in 17 years here)... so some frostbite is common here on SC breeds... i refuse to try to prevent frostbite!!! to me it is one more thing to cull for survival of the fittest... for example had 4 Pendasenca cockerels in the same pen... 3 have bad frostbite one has just the tiniest tips of frostbite on his comb and he has the biggest comb lol... so idk does he have better blood flow??? or just smarter to tuck his head deeper under his wing??? but i know what one ill be putting in the breeding pen this year

he is better than the others in other ways to lol... had another rooster that stays on the ground instead of roosting the snow blew in and he is going to loose his whole comb and a few tips of his toes... ill not be using him for breeding... i cull for survival 1st then vitality then type then production then looks... i want tuff birds... having said all that im just started breeding most of my breeds last year so it will be a few years before i get all that lol...


loving this thread guys and gals keep it up... Elias

 

[WallTenters]

I haven't been able to read all the way through the thread, but it's been very interesting so far. One thing that concerns me is that several posts have mentioned that they are looking for a heritage flock that has the qualities of the breed but may not be fit to show. I understand the difference between a show bird and a farm bird, but the ultimate goal should be the meeting of the two. A homestead hen should have the type and all the trimmings to do well in the show ring if she was shown some TLC and kept out of the rooster pen for a few days.

For a breed to truly succeed, it must be appealing both to those that show and those that homestead or backyard. When we originally got our Dominiques, we were looking for a purely homestead bird. We were those crazy Mother Earth types, and had finally decided to get chickens so went looking for a true heritage breed that would kind of take care of itself and not go dying at every given opportunity. Their coloring is good camoflauge, their rose combs don't freeze in the winter, they lay well in our long Oregon crap winters, and they are moderately broody. We were running on less than 1kW a day for our own power usage - we weren't going to be plugging in an incubator anytime soon.

A car accident really changed things. It's about impossible to haul water when you're in too much pain to walk around. We moved to town, but the chickens stayed with us for love of the breed. With help from a wonderful friend and now partner in our breeding program, we are able to have them even now.

We have been so impressed thus far with the breed that now our plans have changed and we have decided to really work on the breed (with a partner now!

Gotta love her!) and develop a show strain. However, even though we're noting color, comb, angles, etc on our notecards, we're also writing width, capacity, pubic width and egg laying. One of the main reason we like one cockerel in particular is not his color, comb or anything else - but because I think of how his drumsticks would look fried in my dutch oven every time I see him! We may be losing a bit of type by keeping a hen that lays well instead of looks well, and no we won't make it to the winner's circle as fast that way, but in the long run I think the flock will be better off for it.

Just because a bird is heritage and good for the farm doesn't mean it shouldn't meet up to SOP. I love the idea of free-ranging birds and letting hens raise their young, but why not pull out the birds with the worst type or with faults, and let the remaining ones raise their young? Better yet, keep a main flock of nice birds and just hatch a few chicks each year from your best trio. I can build a chicken tractor for a trio for under $50, and they only have to be in there for three weeks. Put those chicks back in with your main flock and keep chugging along. Harvest your veggies, put in your winter garden, and the next spring, find your best trio again. Even if it's a small improvement on your flock, it will still be an improvement, and it costs the same to feed ugly garbage chickens as it does beautiful SOP birds.

If you really like your breed, do it a favor and work on improving it while it's providing you with eggs and meat for the table.

 

[Mervin]

@WallTenters

While I respect your opinions, your post is entirely opinion. If you had read through most of the thread, I'd hope you develop the understanding that most people that are posting the comments you find so troublesome are specifically rejecting opinions, like yours, that they consider to be narrow with regard to livestock and chickens. Some feel that the SOP is somewhat artificial and constraining. Sure, I'd like to win a ribbon at the County Fair as much as the next guy. If, however, that ancillary objective in any way jeopardizes my main objectives of production, carcass quality and temperament, then I really don't give a flip about the SOP when it comes right down to it. Most of these folks, I believe, are embracing the ideas that led to landrace varieties of livestock. What people are saying, or at least I am saying, is that I value function over form and that aesthetics are less important. If I can breed sweet-natured birds that are 1-2# over the SOP and hens that lay 300 eggs a year, I really don't mind if it has 7 points on its comb instead of 5 or feather stubs when it's supposed to have clean legs. I've got boxes full of ribbons and trophies from other endeavors, all they do is sit in the attic and collect dust.

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Who says? You? Why should my idea of the perfect chicken be the same as yours? Do you really consider yourself omnipotent enough to define other peoples goals for them? If everyone throughout the course of history accepted that logic the current breeds we're trying to preserve would not exist. We'd all be stuck with Red Jungle Fowl or whatever breed was initially domesticated.

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Again, this is an opinion based on a narrow perception of success. Many people define success quite differently than you. While some might not approve of leghorn-based battery hens and obese, terminal-cross meat birds, myself included, it is hard to argue that they've not been successful. In terms of sheer numbers and revenue, they are far more successful than the breeds we're championing.

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All I can say is WOW. Aesthetics, it would seem, are at the heart of your diatribe after all. The term "ugly garbage chicken" tells me everything I need to know. You and I will simply never be on the same page. I'm not saying I don't find some of our animals more appealing than others, but I'd certainly never consider any of them, even the ones I intend to cull, garbage. I thank God for my time with each of them and for the enjoyment and nourishment they bring me.

If anything, your post has made me even more staunch in my position. It's sentiment very much like yours that keeps me from showing animals. Even if I develop a line that is very close to the SOP, I may never show. I simply don't ever want to be associated with a narrow perception of success such as you've presented.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I like your thread. When you take on a old breed if you don't breed it up to the standard of perfection your strain will not look appealing to many of us who want to get your strain. You birds will not look any better than the hatchery birds that surround 99 percent of us on this web site. You can not get to your destination unless you have a map. I was fishing yesterday and put my boat into a new boat launch as I was coming back in things looked like I took the the right turn but as I got near the end of the canal I could not see the boat launch and my car and it was getting late. You kind of get a scare in your gut like when you where a kid and you got lost from your parents. In breeding you need to have some idea or goal where you are and where you are going. Start where you are with what you got kind of thinking.

I can only tell you based on what I have looked at over the past 50 years of people who where great breeders when they die about 95 percent of their strains are gone with in 5 years. I have seen breeders who have sold thousands of chicks in their life time over say thirty years and today not one person has their strain. When you cross their strain onto someone else's strain you destroy your gene pool. I think that is why our current large fowl are in such a mess.

If you don't raise them to be good on the farm and the show room I don't think the strain you are working with will turn out to be much. If you don't even have a old black and white standard of perfection like I do you will have no clue what to breed to wards. If you think I am Wack job ask your self this question. How many people do you know that got Heritage birds three to five years ago and is having success right now on this web site. I don't know of many. Maybe five people.

There are thousands of people who read this web site. A hand full of people who have had success shows you what the odds are slim unless you approach this process .

bob

 

[cybercat]

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That's very interesting as I live very close to a lake as well, about 200 yards. My yard is very damp and my basement perpetually wet. I consider it very damp around here. As I said, i have had no problems. One thing I did do was put floor boards in the coop. I had wanted to build it with a dirt floor but thought it would get too damp. I'm curious if it has made a difference. I'm not all that concerned about the coldest part of winter now. Generally the below freezing temperatures keep the humidity very low. What concerns me most are they days to come when it is above freezing during the day and below freezing at night. I could see frostbite being a problem during that period even more than the dead of winter.

I did forget to mention that my coop has a wood floor and one side is off the ground. The Southern states Do have a very high humidity factor. They will be more likly to get frostbite due to it unless coop has air flow. Venalation in this case is not enough. An open coop would be better than a closed coop down south. Most coops do not have air flow from low to higher spot. Doors and windows are sealed tight. This is a big mistake when it comes to venalation. Just having some open spots up top is not enough.

If in the winter you can smell your chickens after they have been locked up a few days then you do Not have enough venaltaion. If you can smell your coop when they are not locked up you need more venaltaion. Point in fact 2 years ago I had 23 chickens in an 8x8 coop locked up for 3 days straight. Now you are thinking way too many for space and yes you are right but I free range so this was not the norm. Anyway point is I smelled no chicken poo at all when I went to tend them those days they were locked up. This year they were locked up for over a week but we are down to 13 now. Still no odor. WHY is because of air flow. My door is not tight at all nor are my windows (which are just cuts outs of wall) air gets in there and Rises up and out the roof. I have pics of my coop on the chickens blog go back to last winter you will see them. All under roof is open, there is not one wall that goes up to roof tight. That is venalation. Not the small plasitc square cut outs under a roof in most sheds. I have light (not electric) in my coop with door closed and windows closed because of under the roof. No glass windows just screen over hole that a wood panel covers in the winter.

I do think that most coops are way too tight. Also they do not use enough bedding. Heat in a coop will not help the chickens but can cause alot of problems like fire and sickness. If they can not acculmate to the weather then what is the point of having them. We are talking farming homesteading as they now are too much trouble and coslty too keep. Winter is a costly time on a farm homestead. With feed being bought as well as bedding. It cost much more in winter than any other month. Since most homesteaders free range our feed cost are way low rest of the year. Bedding too for that matter. I am sure like me many will not want to heat coops to prevent frostbite when it is not nessasry at all. I do alot of deep litter straw as bedding not the aspen shavings. That might have some also to do with it in that the straw interlocks and helps heat build up. The shavings can not do that so well.

Humidity is your frostbite friend or foe. I have a gadge in my coop tells me temp and humidity levels. Do not guess on this get one and find out. Mine humidity changes alot here and in the coop not so much unless it rains or snows. My house humidity is lower than coop many times. Reason all the poop/urine has mostiture in it and that adds to it. So get yourself a gagde and find out for sure what you are dealing with, that way you can plan better.

Ok off soap box. Sorry I do not mean to sound so preachy. I just covered alot of the topic this witner here.

 

[kathyinmo]

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Didn't want to post your entire post ..... but, just wanted to comment....

I totally agree with what you say. Great post!

 

[Mervin]

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Bob, I completely respect your view and do agree that the SOP is a good recipe to start with. In fact, I've had the SOP checked out of the library at the university I work at for quite some time now precisely for that reason. The truth is I don't know beans about the breeds I'm going to try out this spring. I've never seen a SOP or SQ bird for the breeds/varieties and the SOP is the only reference I really have to go off. I don't question the SOP's validity or utility one little bit. I object to people trying to force it upon others, to make it everybody's goal or Holy Grail. I find it especially unsettling when those folks doing the SOP-thumping seem to be equally as inexperienced as those they're trying to preach to.

I don't think your a "wack" job at all. I tend to read a lot your posts because you've established that you're very experienced and knowledgeable. Anyone who passes on the opportunity, in my opinion, is doing themselves a disservice. That said, I've never allowed any person or any book to establish my objectives for me. The fact is, if I do get into breeding and developing my own I'm not going to do it for someone's approval. I have chickens because I enjoy them, not because I want to sell them to anybody and not because I want them to be a legacy. That appears to be where some of our roads diverge so to speak. I might use a recipe to learn how to make chili. But I'm not running a restaurant. If I like more beans in my chili, then I'm going to put more beans in. It's my chili after all.

Someday my objectives may change, I may want to breed exclusively to standard and not just as a reference. Even then I will never tell my friend, who flock breeds a glorious band of colorful mutts, that what he is doing is wrong. It makes him happy. He has lots of peeps scratching around the yard and plenty of eggs to sell and that is his objective. Of the poultry people I know, his are the most successful in terms of paying their own way.