Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[WallTenters]

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That would be the purpose of crossing lines. Chickens have thousands of more genetic variations than humans, dogs or horses, so we have to get that out of our head. You can take two trio's of birds and not run out of genetics in your whole lifetime. If you want hybrid vigor, try to find that vigor in your breed, cross with that line to get the vigor. Or, try to find a strain in your breed that is genetically different from yours - meaning didn't come from the same parent flock or if it did, has been crossed out to other genetics or at least has been breed separately from your bird's flock of origin for a few generations.

"Mutt" chickens do have a purpose for commercial production, backyard fanciers that want certain colors, egg colors, the commercial productivity etc., or to those looking to develop new breeds. They have no place, really, in heritage poultry discussion unless you're outcrossing to bring in a specific trait that your breed has lost over the years. I have been told time and time again and I wholeheartedly agree that these outcrosses should only be done by master breeders with the time and space to do many test hatches (meaning chicks you know you won't be keeping) of close relatives to check for recessive traits leaking through from the outside breed that are undesirable. You also need the experience to cull heavily and the eye for your breed that you know what you're looking for in these outcrosses.

Even then, it can be risky. Look up white Dominiques for instance. That cross was done by an experienced breeder, then passed down to Mr Fields who wrote the book on Dominiques, literally, and even then it took seven years for Mr Fields to realize the white was still in there!

Or even better, look at the million "Dominique" chickens that are Dom/barred rock/wyandotte/RIR crosses. They don't represent any breed well. Slap a rose comb on it's a poor Dominique, slap a single comb on it's a poor Barred Rock. But, it is what had to be done to bring the breed's genetic base back up. Unfortunately commercial egg sellers and irresponsible breeders kept doing it without discression and ruined the breed. Every older breed has a story similar to this one, I think.

Speaking from the little experience I've had - it has all been a failure!

I just hope others (and myself!) learn from my mistakes and keep moving forward. Listen to the nagging folks on here that tell you to go slow, buy quality, start small and cull vigorously!!!

 

[ChestnutRidge]

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The RIR has a great reputation. How is their temperament? What are the RCs you refer to? Red Caps? Rock Cornish? Thanks!

He means the rose comb variety of the RIR.

Ah, gotcha.

That makes sense. (Newbie, here.) Thank you!

 

[WallTenters]

On a lighter note..

I just love it when the Dominique hens come running to the car to see if I have any treats. I love it even more when I do! Today I took them some string cheese - always fun to see them clammoring for it and they each get a piece.

We also went through Rhonda's cockerels and finally got them banded and photos done, we think we've found one possibly two promising ones in there if we play our cards right on the hens we put them in with. We noticed a lot of very even barring right where the saddle meets the tail on these guys... not a good comb in the bunch, but some good posture and otherwise good coloring on the two we're keeping an eye on. The rest will be dinners. We have a few hens with stellar combs so that may be a secondary cross for these young guys, or we'll see what kind of pullets and cockerels we hatch this summer.

Will try to get some photos up soon on the Dominique thread

 

[Yellow House Farm]

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Cool! I aboslutely love the process of selection. I think part of it is taking the time, the meditative quality. I keep sitting in the basement watching the various batches of young chicks. It's great to have recourse to toe-punching and wingbands; they lead to much meaningful record keeping, which is such a spot for gratuitous compulsiveness. This year I am particularly aware of variations in breadth of both head and back of the hatchlings.

Dominque RC's, Dorking RC's, they seem like such a phantom unattainable at times, but maybe, if I ever learn how to do it, we can put some comparative photos up this fall of what our hatchlings' combs grow into. The two breeds share a very similar comb.

 

[WallTenters]

Excellent idea YHF!

One of our young cockerels from our October learn-how-to-use-the-incubator test hatch has a wonderful comb - it's very smooth, but it fits with my personal taste

Now just to had a few little bumps all over it and it would be perfect! But right now we aren't looking at combs, we aren't looking at combs! We have to get type down first, then we can worry about combs again. Still... some of these older cockerels have hideous combs and I can't wait to get rid of that

SIGH. Why can't they all just get the very best of both parents?!

 

[WallTenters]

I keep editing then forgetting what I was going to add...

We are just using leg bands for now, as we're still in the baby beginnings of our breeding program. The chicks we get shipped in this year will get toe punched, as will their resulting offspring. Any birds we keep by this fall will get wing bands on. We know there are so many that will go, we didn't want to wing band everything just yet... leg bands are re-useable

We've eliminated our hens to only good layers, so any that we cull from here on out will go to good laying homes or go in the "egg making pen" with all the hens for the winter. They'll get replaced every other year or so with fresh hens, so we still have them as a back-up in case we realize we need to take a step back in our breeding program, and we'll have wing bands on those ladies that make it through the summer so we'll know their breeding, etc.

 

[Cindiloohoo]

I'm only on page 3 and already love love LOVE this thread!

Thanks for starting it OP!!!

 

[ericsplls]

I've about narrowed it down to Dominique. I really like them and the barred rocks. Anyone know of a good breeder. Has anyone ever raised any from Bob Berry that can tell me if his are closer to hatchery stock or heritage bred. He's not that far from me but I haven't seen his birds and All I can tell from the pictures on his website is the combs are all over the place on his roos. I wouldn't mind paying more for better chicks if they are available if it would save me a couple years breeding and culling to get where I need to be.

 

[cybercat]

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I have been dealing with IDing my chickens now and am still looking for the best way. I started and still use bandetts but since I free range they can be lost. Most have stayed on and since they come in colors and number up to 100 I will continue to use them. I started last year toe punching. Not so thrilled with that ID system. First it is not that easy to get a clear punch all the time and second they heal. I am still thinking of wind band but perfer to be able too see ID when chickens are out and about, instead of having to catch them to check it. Another option is closed leg band but they are metal which can also be hard to see.

I know have my breeders record keeping software called ZooEasy. That will make things alot easier and less confusing. Doing paper just was not working. Program has alot of custom options so is working well for me. It is not cheap but good quality usually is not cheap. It is real easy too use though and covers everything from one animal id with pics to finances to show records to breeding charts, medical ect. I have only gotten to play with it a little but it is really simple to set up. Got mine setup now so that each chicken I can list characteritices on so seleting for culling will be alot easier. Another nice thing you can work with more than one breed of chicken so you do not need to have more than one program if you are breeding more than one breed. I have used software for breeding animals (cats and dogs) before and this is one of the nicest I have seen.

Someone mentioned about the economy and people getting into chickens. Just a note on this many hatcheries are sold out already this year. Same happened last year. There are more getting into them just for the reason mentioned. Since hatcheries are selling out local sellers will do OK. I already have two people I will be working with local to expand my breeding with that already have chickens. This way should I have something wipe out roosters here I have others with my line I can get replacements from to restock. I hope to get a few more later this year too involved. This is a good way to safe guard my breeding and help others out.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

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I bet this is a "call in the Bob" moment. Robert Blosl knows where to get your start in Barred Rocks, if you choose that route, and he'd probably connect you to good DOminiques. There are some Dominique folks on here commonly as well, who probably have the answer there. There is the Dominques Club of America (if I have the title right) which would be an excellent reference point.

Dominques are a neat fowl. Were we not doing Dorkings, they'd be in our top 10 choices. Practically, I prefer their RC to the SC. Well-bred, they should both be on par as layers. Aesthetically, I prefer the linear flow of the DOminique to the Plymouth Rock. Historically, I am drawn to the more transcendent history of the Dominique. Having said all of this, it's of course naught but personal opinion, and the Plymouth ROck has a rich and fascinating history all of its own.

Best of luck!