FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[ChickenCanoe]

uuuuuugh. Is fermenting on a super small scale just harder, or am I doing it wrong? I first mixed up a batch in a plastic cereal tupperware and it went great, just was waaaaaay too much. I only have 3 bantams (not full grown yet) and I kept feeding it for weeks and never got far enough down to backslop. It finally fermented too much (if that's possible?) and smelled so yeasty I couldn't keep it in the house. I finally threw it out and tried on a smaller scale so I could feed it faster. I've been plagued with issues. First time - molded up the sides. Found an even smaller container. Second time - after a day it smelled like straight rubbing alcohol. Read up some and decided I needed to use more water the first ferment, so I mixed in more water so there would be standing water on top. Third time - had to leave for 2 feedings without stirring (a little over 24 hours) without touching because I left town, mold all over the top. Threw that out.
Now I'm on my fourth time and maybe I've got it figured out this time (on day two), but am I doing something wrong? I don't use ACV, just feed and water. I stir when I feed and before bed (I work during the day, so it gets stirred 3 times a day). My container is wider than it is tall. I set the lid on top, but I don't seal it. I use tap water.

Is doing it on such a small scale just harder? Should I just keep trying different mixes until I get a good starter going?

(also, the first time I started the FF it was on the weekend, so I stirred it much more. Should I start it on a weekend so the first batch gets stirred more??)

Smaller batches are a little tougher.
I recommend covering the first batch with water and use a starter. I use plain kefir with 21 live active cultures. Plain yogurt would work too. I haven't found a 'cultured' buttermilk at the grocer that actually has live cultures.
I recently lost 3/4 of my birds to a predator onslaught. I was using four 5-gallon buckets. Now a single bucket is almost too much.

Is your tap water chlorinated? If so then you need to let it sit out for a day before using for the chlorine to dissipate. Otherwise it kills off the good bacteria you are trying to cultivate. Other options are to use distilled water or to use (as we do) RO (reverse osmosis) water. We have a tap for that installed in our house.

Most cities and urban areas don't use chlorine. They use chloramine which is more stable and is a chloramine ammonia bond. Letting it sit out for the day won't dissipate the chlorine. The bond must be broken first to allow it to dissipate. A tap water conditioner for aquariums available at all pet stores is a good option.

....It's probably chlorinated. Never thought about that killing bad and good bacteria.

I was told by the chemists at a chicken probiotic manufacturer that chlorinated water will kill the good bugs.

None of the old stuff around, I let the wild birds have it.
Thanks for the info. Guess I'll try to recreate what I did at first, and get a little more technical about how much I need each day to keep the smell down.
I'm just annoyed at the whole process right now. lol.

 

[Nuggetirl]

Quote: Now I need to make a call. We haven't lived where we are now for very long, so I know for our previous town they switched to chloramine just last year, but our new town I'm not sure.

 

[subhanalah]

Smaller batches are a little tougher.
I recommend  covering the first batch with water and use a starter. I use plain kefir with 21 live active cultures. Plain yogurt would work too. I haven't found a 'cultured' buttermilk at the grocer that actually has live cultures.
I recently lost 3/4 of my birds to a predator onslaught. I was using four 5-gallon buckets. Now a single bucket is almost too much.

Most cities and urban areas don't use chlorine. They use chloramine which is more stable and is a chloramine ammonia bond. Letting it sit out for the day won't dissipate the chlorine. The bond must be broken first to allow it to dissipate. A tap water conditioner for aquariums available at all pet stores is a good option.

I was told by the chemists at a chicken probiotic manufacturer that chlorinated water will kill the good bugs.

yeah, the flies love my FI and FF poop too my friend keeps her FF outside and she has maggots growing in hers. The chickens love it. I think it may be because others use a non-animal protein feed to ferment. Doesn't flock raiser have animal protein in it?

Also, I bought Pond Prime (half gallon jug) and use a drop when I make a new container of water.
They probably use chloramine for your water Nugg (@Nuggetirl), like they do here.

 

[Nuggetirl]

Quote: So, chloramine is bad too.

 

[subhanalah]

So, chloramine is bad too.

yes, not only does it have chlorine in it, it also has ammonia in it (I.e. waste).
I'm pretty sure we shouldn't be drinking it either.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

yeah, the flies love my FI and FF poop too my friend keeps her FF outside and she has maggots growing in hers. The chickens love it. I think it may be because others use a non-animal protein feed to ferment. Doesn't flock raiser have animal protein in it?

Also, I bought Pond Prime (half gallon jug) and use a drop when I make a new container of water.
They probably use chloramine for your water Nugg (@Nuggetirl ), like they do here.

Not necessarily. Most chicken feeds are vegetarian. Out of some 20 different feeds I've used, only about 4 have had fish or pork meal as a protein source.
The feed I'm currently using is a vegetarian organic 16% protein grower. That's the one that's been covered with flies.

So, chloramine is bad too.

It's worse because it won't gas off on its own. Water companies use it because it is much more stable, they can use less and it doesn't fluctuate in the supply.
Usually small community wells are the only ones that use chlorine now.

yes, not only does it have chlorine in it, it also has ammonia in it (I.e. waste).
I'm pretty sure we shouldn't be drinking it either.

The same aforementioned chemists told me that humans drinking chloramine water should be constantly replenishing their gut probiotics.

 

[subhanalah]

Not necessarily. Most chicken feeds are vegetarian. Out of some 20 different feeds I've used, only about 4 have had fish or pork meal as a protein source.
The feed I'm currently using is a vegetarian organic 16% protein grower. That's the one that's been covered with flies.

It's worse because it won't gas off on its own.

The same aforementioned chemists told me that humans drinking chloramine water should be constantly replenishing their gut probiotics.

no wonder I feel like I'm rotting from the inside out.

 

[evemfoster]

None of the old stuff around, I let the wild birds have it.
Thanks for the info. Guess I'll try to recreate what I did at first, and get a little more technical about how much I need each day to keep the smell down.
I'm just annoyed at the whole process right now. lol.

If you make too much you can refrigerate or even freeze the extra to keep it from getting stinky. When you are ready to use it just add it to your FF container and stir. The time I refrigerated some (the whole container) I found it got a little runny. I just added a little more crumbles and the birds ate it fine.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

The packet of my probiotic powder says to keep it between 34F and 103F so that tells me freezing isn't good for some of the bacteria/yeast.

 

[subhanalah]

The packet of my probiotic powder says to keep it between 34F and 103F so that tells me freezing isn't good for some of the bacteria/yeast.

I don't think it would hurt it to referent it though, if you froze it. I don't know ow how long it would stay good in the fridge, but I'd imagine they would just slow way down at 36-40 degrees, which is what a refrigerator keeps food at, right?