FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

Upon request I am starting a thread about using fermentation to improve feed nutritive value and health benefits.

1. Anyone doing it?
2. How long have you been doing it?
3. Your methods?
4. Grains/feeds used in this manner?
5. Your overall review of this method of feeding?

 

[Beekissed]

No one? Okay...I'll start...

This will not be the first time I've fed fermented feeds to my chickens...just the first time I fermented their grain-based feeds. In the past I've always kept unpasteurized ACV(with the mother intact) in their water and have also fed them fermented pumpkins in late winter/early spring.

This year, though, I happened to become curious about the health benefits of feeding them to the meaties in order to get more bang for my buck and also to keep them from having the smelly, diarrhea poops that are characteristic for these birds.

Here are some of the articles I found that were helpful...it is a lot of information through which to sift, but there are gold nuggets in that thar stream...

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajb/article/viewFile/60378/48610

http://www.pjbs.org/ijps/fin640.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724

Last but not least...ACV info~interesting stuff if you take it further and research the benefits of the bacteria therein:

http://silvalab.fsnhp.msstate.edu//vinegar_lactic.pdf

Of course, I knew little of fermenting grains, so I just had to start it somewhere....and it turned out much easier than I suspected. I haven't been doing it long enough and on enough birds to give good, solid results and I'm hoping to hear from others who can but I can tell you what I have seen thus far.

Anyone doing it? That would be me!

How long have you been doing it? For some time but this is the first time doing it with the base feed ration of grains.

Your methods? Right now I'm just using non-medicated chick starter for 54 meaties and one young WR roo. My methods consist of two 5 gal. buckets sitting one within the other. The top bucket has small holes drilled in the bottom and sides to form a sieve(this will come in handy later when I ferment whole grains and want to drain off the fermented water).

Add chick starter, water, a glug or two of the UP/ACV for a starter culture and stir. Wait until the next day and stir some more, try to keep the whole mix moist to promote the fermentation process. You ought to smell a slight sour smell and see bubbles rising in the mash...when you smell and see this, you have active fermentation going on.

If you don't have anything to jump start this mix, as long as you keep it at room temp and let the air into it, it should form it's own cultures within 24 hours and they will grow stronger the longer they are allowed to "cook" or "work"...think sourdough bread starter when you picture what it looks and smells like.

I don't empty the water off this mix and the water lying in the bottom of the bucket sieve system is holding all the strong cultured growth of good bacteria, so when I add water it mixes with it and rises up past the grain in the top bucket to saturate the whole mix. This reusing the cultures from the old water is called back-slopping and it will make your fermentation quicker and stronger and also give you a heavier growth of good bacteria.

I also give UP/ACV in all their water.


Grains/feeds used in this manner? Right now, the chick starter, but when it is done(#50 bag), I'll switch to cracked corn, barley and wheat grains. I'll venture to say they will probably have to ferment a little longer then the fine starter crumbles.

Your overall review of this method of feeding? So far, I find it easy to do, a little messier than regular feeding when dealing with chicks and chick-height feeders but will soon be able to use it in feeders that can be elevated and not trampled in.

I also am very pleased to see that my CX chicks have perfect little formed poops instead of their usual yellow, frothy, stinky squirts so typical of the breed. Their brooder has no bad smells, the chicks are eating the feed well and are growing quickly. They don't seem to need to drink as often as when they first arrived and I attribute this to two reasons: 1. They are being fed moist feed. 2. They are not dehydrated by having liquid~ and frequent~ poops.

The WR roo was a gift and arrived a few days ago..he is probably 5 mo. old. He seemed reluctant to eat the mix and acted like he was eating poop or something the first few times he ate it.

Now he seems to have developed quite a taste for it and is cleaning his plate well! His feces have improved in color, texture and odor also since he first arrived.

Only time will tell how this feeding method pans out but I'm willing to try it and see. I am doing this to improve bird health and performance and to gain more feed efficacy, thus spending less money on feed costs.

 

[Pault76]

I just got back into the chicken business about a month ago. I read one of your other post about your cx chicks and fermented feed. I have a grown pair of banties and 45 chicks that got their first taste of fermented feed today and they loved it. I know my cx chicks couldn't get enuf of it.

We used to feed fermented shell corn when we had hogs, dads theory was it didn't come out the same way it went in lol.

 

[Molpet]

I feed the FF in the winter because they need less water.. I figured I am out changing water and getting eggs before they freeze anyway.... they eat their fill before it freezes and I switch bowels and thaw the leftovers...no electricity out there and I am retired and chickens keep me active LOL

 

[Kusanar]

This is somewhat vaguely related. I have a heated dog water bowl on my porch for my cats. If the water dries up, the cat will curl up and sleep in it. So having something solid in the bowl with no water does not seem to be a problem. Does not seem to burn the cat, but I don't know if it would over cook the FF.

Don't you know? Cats aren't a solid! Cats are a liquid! lol, sorry, someone is actually doing a research paper on the subject stating that since the definition of a liquid is something that fills and takes the shape of the container that it is in, and that cats do this, that cats are liquid...

 

[AquaDuck]

Just wanted to revive this wonderful thread with some articles on the benefit of fermentation.

Recent advances in fermented feeds towards improved broiler chicken performance, gastrointestinal tract microecology and immune responses
Yes, very long title... Quite straight forward to read.
It finds that feeding fermentation:
- lactic acid increases
- bad bacteria, yeast and moulds decreases
- lower pH values
- mycotoxins decreases
- lowers content of non-digestible fibers (by breaking down the fibers to more edible parts)
- protein levels increases somewhat
- increases digestibility of organic matter, nitrogen, amino acids, fibre and calcium
- reduces anti-nutritional factors. It breaks down the plants' defense mechanisms, such as lectins and phytic acid
- improves omega-3 levels
- creates unfavorable environments for e-coli, salmonella and streptococci in the gut
- increases intestinal activity
- betters the immune system

- Layer hens ate less when served fermented feed, and were bigger than their sisters who got regular feed. However, little chicks served FF both ate less and grew slower. When they got older, they grew to the same size as the control group fed regular feed.

"Fermentation feeds may be responsible for improvements in digestion and absorption which in turn improve production performance of birds. Another study suggested that positive influences of fermented feeds seen in gastrointestinal environment/condition (e.g., the lowering of gastric pH and pathogenic microbial activity as well as increasing the production of short chain fatty acids [SCFA]), may be attributable to the increased digestibility of feeds, which in turn improves the growth performance of chickens. Moreover *several studies* revealed that increased activities of digestive enzymes such as amylases, trypsins, lipases and proteases in broilers on fermented feeds, are responsible for growth improvements in birds."

Review: Anti-nutritional effects of phytic acid in diets for pigs and poultry - current knowledge and directions for future research
- Phytic acid found in grain reduces mineral uptake in body and also takes a lot of energy for the bird to process.
- Phytic acid binds itself easily to both minerals and pepsin (protein enzymes needed for conversion and uptake of energy), but aren't absorbed by the body and are exerted through feces.
- They reduce the uptake of carbohydrate and fat, most likely because phytic acid inhibits the enzymes needed.

- Soaking and fermenting feed reduces the level of phytic acid in grains

Health-Promoting Components in Fermented Foods
About the use of fermented foods in general. Quite heavy to read.

 

[Chris09]

I'm bringing this thread back to the top because the one in the meat bird forum is getting some layer traffic now. I haven't been weighing my girls or anything, and I haven't used the 5 gallon buckets yet, but I have been making the fermented mash. I have run out of ACV as well as the pasteurized stuff so I'm going to have to drop back to dry feed until I can scrounge up the money to get more. I will say, my girls gobble it up like I haven't fed them in days.

Once they reach about 18 weeks, I'm going to have to develop them a layer formula with whole and/or cracked grains bought in bulk, like Beekissed has done. I can't wait for the first eggs. I'm at 8 weeks tomorrow.

You can use a cup or two of brown sugar or even two cups of apple juice instead of the ACV.
There are a lot of people that ferment there grain in nothing more than water and brown sugar.
One of the best fermented feed mixes I used was water, 1 tablespoon ACV (any type), 1 cup apple juice, and 2 tablespoon of kicken chicken.
Cover, top with water as needed and let ferment 1 week minimum.
It should have a beer smell.


Chris

 

[Leahs Mom]

Wooden window box from Menards.
2 pyrex pans set inside.

PROS:
Deep enough they don't dump it out all over.
Glass so it isn't corroded by the acid feed and no plastic chemicals or metal leaching into feed.
Easy to remove the pans to wash.
High enough that they don't scratch litter into it.
Narrow enough that the adults don't stand in it and scratch.

 

[6PeckinChickens]

I'm wanting to try FF! Only 855 pages to read!!

 

[Ebarnes-21]

LOLOLOLOLOL here is the quote from the official Poultry Nutrition book that gives advice for commercial poultry rations.

All the way through I have been wondering that they compare basically how little nutrition they can get away with and still keep a chicken laying ... and I wonder what about the nutritional content of the egg!!?

So now I get to the beginning of the chapter on Breeding Stock ... and I read: "dietary levels of trace minerals and vitamins that result in maximum egg yield per day may be too low for the developing embryo".

Ahem ... did I just hear them say that commercial human food eggs cannot support a growing chick adequately ... ie, that they are ... dare I say it ...
Less Than Ideally Nutritious??

Hey maybe we better all keep some chickens and grow our own eggs ...