First time coop. Critique my plans.

[MrRaccoon]

Hi all

I am (soon to be) a first time chicken owner, and before we get any chicks, we are going to get a coop and run in place. We are planning on starting with chickens, and are hoping to add ducks (maybe next year). I am not sure what flock size we are going to want yet. At the moment we are thinking somewhere in the range of 4 to 8 chickens.

Our current idea is to make a 4'x8' coop, and have a 8'x12' run. Our backyard has a 6' cedar fence, so we can probably let them range about the yard most days too. Here are some sketches that I made of my current idea for a coop and run. I'm hoping to get some advice from those more experienced, and avoid common mistakes.

Side View shows 8' of run in front of the coop. The coop is elevated about 2' and has an additional 4' of run underneath it. The run has a short sloped chicken-wire roof that can be opened (hinges on both sides like a cellar door).

Back View Showing double doors running the length of the coop. Also has a sliding hatch door to secure the coop. The door slides to the side so that it can be closed easily from outside the run.

We are going to try compressed pine bedding pellets in the coop. I am thinking about having a board below the doors to keep the pellets from spilling out when the door is opened, but having it on hinges so that it can fold down for easy cleaning.

The run is going to be pretty short, but I think that it will be fine with the hinged roof "doors" so that I can get in easily.

Here are some of the things we are most wondering about:

Keeping out predators
We will be burying the run fence 6" into the ground. Around here (PNW, just south of Portland, OR) I think the biggest worries we have are rats, raccoons, and coyotes. We hope that our backyard cedar fence will forestall coyotes getting in. But would having the mesh be buried be enough to keep out rats and raccoons (particularly if we were gone for a few days).

Latches
What kind of door latches are going to keep out raccoons? I drew the stereotypical wooden block twist latches, but I bet it would take a raccoon only seconds to open.

Roofing
We are debating corrugated steel and shingles on plywood for the roof. If we used corrugated steel could we get away without using wood closure strips. If we had a foot or two of overhang, could we just count the gaps left by the corrugation as additional ventilation, or is going to let in too much of our good old PNW rain?

Coop Size
I was initially thinking of doing a 4'x4' coop, but I have heard many warnings about chicken math. What are people's thoughts?

EDIT: Coop Flooring
(Edited to add. I forgot to put this in the initial post) Should I put a linoleum coating on the floor of the coop, or just paint it? I am planning on using 15/32" fir plywood for the coop.

Thanks so much!

 

[Sally PB]

1) You need more ventilation. Figure 1 s/f per chicken, open 24/7/365. Yes, a square foot per bird. By open, I mean covered with hardware cloth to make it predator proof. Chicken wire isn't enough; it keeps chickens in, but doesn't keep predators out.

2) Bigger is better. "Gee, I wish I'd made my coop smaller," said nobody, ever. Figure 4 s/f per bird in the coop, and 10 s/f per bird in the run. These are considered minimums. Also plan on 1 linear foot of roost space per adult bird. For 8 layers, 2 or 3 nest boxes should be enough.

3) Your climate matters. A lot. Chickens need to stay dry to stay warm in the winter. They are wearing down parkas, so if they are out of the wind and are dry, they can keep themselves warm down to very cold temperatures, even below zero F.

We will be burying the run fence 6" into the ground.

6 inches might not be enough. Consider an easier way: a predator apron on the ground around the coop and run. 18-24" is usually the distance given. People have used hardware cloth and other fencing to deter the big diggers, like raccoons.

What kind of door latches are going to keep out raccoons? I drew the stereotypical wooden block twist latches, but I bet it would take a raccoon only seconds to open.

I have read that a latch needs to have at least 3 "steps" to opening it to foil a raccoon. Or be a padlock. Here are pictures of my carabiner latch, showing how it opens.
It hangs upside down when shut.

I have to turnin it around

Uncliip

It doubles as the door pull.

Look at other latch ideas on other coops. Search the articles for coop builds; there are a lot of them!

We are debating corrugated steel and shingles on plywood for the roof. If we used corrugated steel could we get away without using wood closure strips. If we had a foot or two of overhang, could we just count the gaps left by the corrugation as additional ventilation, or is going to let in too much of our good old PNW rain?

The steel would probably be faster to install, and maybe cheaper too. A big overhang helps keep out the wind and rain.

When you think of adding ventilation, don't think of square inches, think in terms of square feet.

The coop is elevated about 2' and has an additional 4' of run underneath it

Be sure you can reach every part of that area. Some day a chicken will lay an egg under there. Or be ill, and think that is the place to hunker down.

Our backyard has a 6' cedar fence, so we can probably let them range about the yard most days too.

A 6' fence might not be tall enough.

Do you have some bushes or shrubs or trees in the yard? They would benefit from shade in the summer.

Do you have aerial predators? Hawks are a big problem for some people. People on BYC have posted about a hawk taking a chicken right in front of them. Hawks are fast! Shrubs/bushes can give the birds some cover, but they might not get there or back to the run in time.

You're thinking ahead!

And,

 

[21hens-incharge]

Just adding to the great advice above.

The hinged roof on the run is not a great idea. At the size the doors will be they will be difficult to open....then add snow.

It is literally only adding height on the sides to make the run a walk in. That investment wouldn't add much to the cost but would add tremendously to the chicken keeping enjoyment.

 

[MrRaccoon]

Thanks so much for the awesome reply Sally!

You need more ventilation. Figure 1 s/f per chicken

Perhaps I could add a foot tall strip of ventilation along the front of the coop, under the overhang. That would be 1'x8', so enough for my needs. Should I have flaps to cover over parts of that if the chicken count is lower, or is having a few extra sqft of ventilation not a big issue?

Be sure you can reach every part of that area. Some day a chicken will lay an egg under there. Or be ill, and think that is the place to hunker down.

Good point. Might as well make every wire mesh panel on there a hinged door.

A 6' fence might not be tall enough.

What would the concern be with a 6' fence? Chickens getting over, or a particular predator?

Do you have some bushes or shrubs or trees in the yard? They would benefit from shade in the summer.

Do you have aerial predators? Hawks are a big problem for some people.

We have hawks, but we also have lots of cover (both trees and large bushes). Most of the hawks I see are fairly small (not much larger than a crow), but once in a blue moon I see an eagle. Hopefully they go for the plentiful squirrels that we have around here, rather than the chickens.

Thanks!

 

[MrRaccoon]

Thanks for the reply 21hens.

The hinged roof on the run is not a great idea. At the size the doors will be they will be difficult to open....then add snow.

I was thinking about making two 4'x8' doors which are mesh wire in a wood frame. That doesn't sound too hard to open to me, but you raise a really good point about snow. We get so little of it around here that I always forget to account for it. (3 inches is a big snow around here. Some years we get almost none).

What does snow do on a 1/2" wire mesh? Does it mostly build up on it instead of falling through?

 

[MrRaccoon]

One more thing I've been wondering:

A big overhang helps keep out the wind and rain.

I have read many times that I must have a draft-free coop, but that it must be well ventilated. What is the difference between keeping out wind/drafts, and allowing ventilation. Is it mostly that the ventilation is up high, above the chickens' heads (including on the roost)?

EDIT: I just found the answer on a featured article today: Articles Learning Center Top 15 Chicken Coop Mistakes. According to the article, yes the ventilation must be over the Chickens' heads to not be a draft.

 

[21hens-incharge]

Thanks for the reply 21hens.



I was thinking about making two 4'x8' doors which are mesh wire in a wood frame. That doesn't sound too hard to open to me, but you raise a really good point about snow. We get so little of it around here that I always forget to account for it. (3 inches is a big snow around here. Some years we get almost none).

What does snow do on a 1/2" wire mesh? Does it mostly build up on it instead of falling through?

It's about leverage. You will be on one narrow end trying to leverage all the way to the other end. It's harder than it looks.
A human house inside door is around 32" by 80" so quite a bit smaller. They are easy because of being vertical.

My advice is to mock it up and try it before you commit to a run lid that way.
Make a frame the size your door will be then mount it as intended to be used on some scrap lumber and give it a go.

Oh and yes snow will stick to the wire sagging it down greatly. To support it you need more framing than the doors will allow.

 

[SandyRiverChick]

Hey there, I'm in Clackamas County too.... Brightwood. I started out with a coop of the size you're planning and then over the years expanded twice. It's ridiculously big now, lol. I've learned that coops in Texas, Florida, etc. have wildly different must have's than in our climate. Also I'm from Alaska so I consider our climate really mild compared to those extremes. Ventilation is very important no matter where you are but.... I don't know, I just have vents in various places of my coop and it does great. It's cool in summer, warm in winter (it's insulated.) One thing you asked that confused me about the roof is this:

If we had a foot or two of overhang, could we just count the gaps left by the corrugation as additional ventilation, or is going to let in too much of our good old PNW rain?

I don't see how that would be ventilation if the plywood is attached to the frame. Overhang however is good anywhere you can do thanks to rain. You'll want wood chips in the run to prevent mud, even covered.

Have fun building, I love "chickening," thus my constant coop expansions.

 

[Sally PB]

Perhaps I could add a foot tall strip of ventilation along the front of the coop, under the overhang. That would be 1'x8', so enough for my needs. Should I have flaps to cover over parts of that if the chicken count is lower, or is having a few extra sqft of ventilation not a big issue?

Extra ventilation is great! Cover the opening with 1/2" hardware cloth.

What would the concern be with a 6' fence? Chickens getting over, or a particular predator?

A lot of chickens can get over a 6' fence. Some breeds fly better than others.

What does snow do on a 1/2" wire mesh? Does it mostly build up on it instead of falling through?

It builds up and if there is enough wet (heavy)snow, it can bring down mesh.

 

[MrRaccoon]

If we had a foot or two of overhang, could we just count the gaps left by the corrugation as additional ventilation, or is going to let in too much of our good old PNW rain?

I don't see how that would be ventilation if the plywood is attached to the frame.

I was thinking that if we did corrugated metal then we wouldn't have plywood underneath it (just some 2x4 joists instead). So there would be gaps between the peaks of the corrugation and the coop walls.