Goose mating- is it wise to buy stock from 2 sources?

[Gateway717]

Hello-

I am looking at buying goslings from Sandhill preservation, 3 each of Buff American and Pilgrim ( they only sell straight run, so who knows what I actually get). My intention is to hopefully end up with a pair or trio of each. My concern is that there is a chance they could be siblings or very closely related. Do most people buy stock from multiple sources at the same time in order to get more genetic diversity? I was thinking I could order from Metzer about the same time and mark them so I could pair them off when the time comes.

 

[_-Captain BRM-_]

Fair point- but with most fast production animals, a few close relations rarely mess up the offspring until 10 generations in. With rabbits it goes as far as 18, maybe it's similar with fowl. I wouldn't stress on it

 

[nuthatched]

I'd avoid Sandhill, their birds and business are terrible.

 

[Ryebi]

Fair point- but with most fast production animals, a few close relations rarely mess up the offspring until 10 generations in. With rabbits it goes as far as 18, maybe it's similar with fowl. I wouldn't stress on it

Honestly, even with rabbits I know some breeders who have been breeding from the same rabbit lines for the past 15+ years and never add "fresh blood" with no issues. The trick is just having lines with little to no issues to start and culling aggressively for health and fertility.

Saying that though, pilgrims do have known fertility issues so that's a thing to work around to start with. I got all of mine from locally hatched sources since I suspected it might've been hatcheries setting that poor expectation.

I haven't been at it long though, so probably more luck/anecdote, but it seems to be proving itself to be true. My hatchery pair of pilgrims almost put me off geese forever after years of struggling, yet my locally sourced ones aren't even a year old yet and have already accomplished significantly more. The source seems to be more important than choosing multiple sources.

 

[Percheron chick]

From a hatchery it's highly unlikely (improbable) that they are litter mates. If they hatch 1000 each week and a goose only lays 3-4,' that means they have upwards of 400 females and 100+ males. Eggs are gathered, set, hatched and boxed randomly.

 

[Ryebi]

From a hatchery it's highly unlikely (improbable) that they are litter mates. If they hatch 1000 each week and a goose only lays 3-4,' that means they have upwards of 400 females and 100+ males. Eggs are gathered, set, hatched and boxed randomly.

Normally that would be true, but I think a few (2? 3?) years ago they lost a LOT of birds at a major breeding facility and because of it they have only been getting around 10 Pilgrims to hatch a YEAR across all hatcheries. Usually only males are offered, sometimes (rarely) straight run and usually straight run orders get cancelled because "none hatched".

Every hatchery website I know will advertise exactly the same number of males/straight run on exactly the same dates, which tells me all of the hatcheries were using the same exact source for their Pilgrim geese most likely and are currently keeping all of their females back for future breeding.

This is 110% still true though for most anything else, especially chickens.

ETA: I'm only guessing at around 3 years because that was when I was trying to buy more, and joined every waiting list I could find to no avail (I specifically joined here in search of them, even, and could swear I saw threads talking about massive hatchery losses at the time - can't find em now). But I did just now find several threads implying it has been an issue going back way longer, at least more than 10 years ago. The point is they don't have a very diverse gene pool for Pilgrims in particular, which is one of the breeds OP seemed interested in. I'm unfamiliar with the other breed they mentioned so can't comment there.

 

[FoodFreedomNow]

Honestly, even with rabbits I know some breeders who have been breeding from the same rabbit lines for the past 15+ years and never add "fresh blood" with no issues. The trick is just having lines with little to no issues to start and culling aggressively for health and fertility.

Saying that though, pilgrims do have known fertility issues so that's a thing to work around to start with. I got all of mine from locally hatched sources since I suspected it might've been hatcheries setting that poor expectation.

I haven't been at it long though, so probably more luck/anecdote, but it seems to be proving itself to be true. My hatchery pair of pilgrims almost put me off geese forever after years of struggling, yet my locally sourced ones aren't even a year old yet and have already accomplished significantly more. The source seems to be more important than choosing multiple sources.

I also raise Pilgrims. It must be certain lines that experience the low fertility because mine don't have that issue (I've set 4 hatches this year so far). My stock is from both reasonably local shipped eggs and local (as in close enough to drive to) stock, rather than direct-from-hatchery stock.

One issue I've encountered with trying to source birds from other bloodlines is that doesn't seem to be uncommon to find people who are selling "Pilgrims" that aren't actually Pilgrims, meaning they don't autosex properly and often aren't correct in conformation for Pilgrims. If you're looking locally and you're new to the breed, be sure that you know what to look for or you may get something different.

 

[Ryebi]

I also raise Pilgrims. It must be certain lines that experience the low fertility because mine don't have that issue (I've set 4 hatches this year so far). My stock is from both reasonably local shipped eggs and local (as in close enough to drive to) stock, rather than direct-from-hatchery stock.

One issue I've encountered with trying to source birds from other bloodlines is that doesn't seem to be uncommon to find people who are selling "Pilgrims" that aren't actually Pilgrims, meaning they don't autosex properly and often aren't correct in conformation for Pilgrims. If you're looking locally and you're new to the breed, be sure that you know what to look for or you may get something different.

Useful info. I'm not new to the breed myself (unsure if directed at me or OP) but do agree; make sure you know what you're looking at before buying stock. Make sure you can examine the parent stock/their setup too.

My biggest problem wasn't finding pure pilgrims, but finding ones that weren't treated like crap. Angelwing and niacin deficiencies galore.

 

[FoodFreedomNow]

@Ryebi, my comment about using care when looking for Pilgrims was just directed to folks who are new to the breed in a general sense, not you, specifically.

That's disheartening that you encountered so many with issues that could have been easily prevented and/or addressed. There's plenty of free information about properly raising geese (like here), and people need to avail themselves of it.

 

[Chickenosauurs_RexNo54]

I'd avoid Sandhill, their birds and business are terrible.

Their birds and business aren't terrible, they just usually use the postal system instead of email. They also have a lot of birds to take care of.