Great Depression of 2016

[caychris]

I get the feeling that if you lived in the time of just horses you would have said auto would never replace the horse.

No just that I've really started taking a critical eye to what people are saying.(and what they are not saying)

There were a lot of assumptions in the presentation.

The battery swap idea is great and exactly the kind of way you solve the range and charging problems.

I'm not saying we wont move to electric cars. I just think the future is much further off than they realize because they aren't going to get there before other economic realities set in.

If he thinks he is going to be able to have the billions of ready batteries and charged on the grand scale he hasn't really scaled the cost not only producing the batteries but the cost of the infrastructure that will charge the. Where is the electricity generation going to come from on the scale he is talking about.

I think we will get there I think its promising progress and he has thought a lot more about making it possible. I like the commitment of we are doing it but 2 cents a mile is nice to say I want to know how you arrive at those costs because when something sounds too good to be true it usually is.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
As has been said many times, it wont happen overnight !

The average age of the U.S. auto is over 11 years, So even if they started selling only EV's now it would be about 11 years before half the autos were EV's. A more realistic forecast would be 20 years before half the autos are EV's.

How much do you think if would cost to build all the gas station we have today ? But see we didn't build all those all at once. How much do you think would be spent on building new gas stations and rebuilding old gas stations in the next 20 years if there was no EV's ?

Most of the recharging will be done at home in the evening when power demand is down, so the existing power stations can handle the extra draw.

So lets say his 2 cents is off, lets say it's 10 cents a mile. At $4.00 a gallon we are paying 20 cents a mile at 20 miles per gallon.

There are no hurdles that are too high.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Ford had plans to make a 500 horsepower electric mustang but dropped it.

My brother who has never bought new or even cared for alternative energy said if they built it he would buy one. You build cars people want an they will buy them. The only reason the older ones did not take off is cause they looked dumb.

 

[LindaB220]

There is only one way to reverse this over all trend and it isn't by winning one (or many) election(s).

Freedom and Liberty can only be upheld by a industrious and virtuous people.

There is the statement that "We get the government we deserve" and it is true.

We need to reintroduce the concepts of self reliance and community (not the ACORN kind) back into the American culture or when it comes crashing down your horde of food and bullets will not be enough to save you.

I think by helping our neighbors become better emergency prepared it will foster in some way the seeds of self reliance and community that will begin to again give hope to people that they can better their lives. This is the missing element in todays society. The idea that you can become better off has been beaten out of many of us. When there is little hope you turn to anyone that can give you any measure.

Many people say you cant compete with Santa Clause. Well that is true especially if you are not their telling them that Santa is giving away a free pair of chains with that check. We have to be prepared ourselves but we must also teach others to fish. Or we will be that last slave at the mill wheel grinding out bread for the hungry masses.

Many of us here have taken steps in this direction by learning lost skills and rejecting dependence on Commercial operations for some of the very basic foods in life. All that is needed now is to spread the word and get as many as you can involved in their own program of self reliance. Communities formed in order to collectively share the load and take advantage of specialized skills. These are good things but they need to come about by a people who are first seeking to live free. Who first find what they can contribute to a community in order to fill the gaps in what they lack. This cannot be done by force as the communist would have you believe it must be voluntary. Each person brings their value to the table and purchases things in exchange.

Today's society fails in large part because we can artificially assign value to ultimately worthless things. And in doing so surrender and make trivial those things which we should value most of all.

Sorry for the "rant" and being new to the thread something here sparked something that Ive been thinking about for a long time now.

What a great post. The key is self reliance and teaching others.

 

[rufus]

Electric vehicles will work great on islands and countries that are small such as Israel. But it seems that they will not do in a place like Arizona. All the juice would be drained away in the air conditioning.

I think the future belongs to natural gas. Current automobiles may be able to be retro fitted for natural gas, but it has to be done correctly.

If gas companies were given a tax credit for converting or building new gas stations it would happen a lot faster. However there seems to be a certain portion of our society that hates and despises petroleum companies. These are the same people that oppose electric lines, dams, freeways and anything else that would improve the human condition.

They are obstructionis, plain and simple.

We need to set a date after which all automobiles manufactured for use in the USA must be non gasoline operated. Then we need to set a date for the conversion of current vehicles. This goes against my very nature, but it is the only way change will happen.

Sorry to say.

 

[jlynnp]

So the answer is to give up and go back to caves ?
Why do you say low range electric vehicles ?
Do you know they can change the battery pack faster then you can fill a gas tank ?

Perhaps they can charge up quick but they are just to limited in what you can do with one. Even these micro cars you see around are not suitable for many folks. Even my Ford Fusion cannot tow my ECV let alone a stock trailor with a few cows.

 

[jlynnp]

Electric vehicles will work great on islands and countries that are small such as Israel. But it seems that they will not do in a place like Arizona. All the juice would be drained away in the air conditioning.

I think the future belongs to natural gas. Current automobiles may be able to be retro fitted for natural gas, but it has to be done correctly.

If gas companies were given a tax credit for converting or building new gas stations it would happen a lot faster. However there seems to be a certain portion of our society that hates and despises petroleum companies. These are the same people that oppose electric lines, dams, freeways and anything else that would improve the human condition.

They are obstructionis, plain and simple.

We need to set a date after which all automobiles manufactured for use in the USA must be non gasoline operated. Then we need to set a date for the conversion of current vehicles. This goes against my very nature, but it is the only way change will happen.

Sorry to say.

I can see me towing a large stock trailer with an electric vehicle. I agree I think natural gas is the way.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:

Quote:
Some people have fallen into the trap of thinking it has to be one source of power.

Why should we have just one source of fuel ? If an EV fits your needs then you are free to buy one. If you need to haul a large trailer then buy what fits your needs.
There is no need to do away with gasoline and diesel powered cars and trucks. Let the market place (the people) make the choice of what fits their needs.

Do we have one size and type of home for everyone ? It's not one fuel that fits everyones needs, the future has fueling stations that supply gasoline, diesel, battery charge/change, or CNG all in one place. Just remember, just because it doesn't fit your needs that doesn't mean it doesn't fit the needs of many others.

 

[caychris]

Some people have fallen into the trap of thinking it has to be one source of power.

Why should we have just one source of fuel ? If an EV fits your needs then you are free to buy one. If you need to haul a large trailer then buy what fits your needs.
There is no need to do away with gasoline and diesel powered cars and trucks. Let the market place (the people) make the choice of what fits their needs.

Do we have one size and type of home for everyone ? It's not one fuel that fits everyones needs, the future has fueling stations that supply gasoline, diesel, battery charge/change, or CNG all in one place. Just remember, just because it doesn't fit your needs that doesn't mean it doesn't fit the needs of many others.

I can agree there. It's the people who say we have to do "this" to save the planet that get me.

 

[caychris]

Some people have fallen into the trap of thinking it has to be one source of power.

Why should we have just one source of fuel ? If an EV fits your needs then you are free to buy one. If you need to haul a large trailer then buy what fits your needs.
There is no need to do away with gasoline and diesel powered cars and trucks. Let the market place (the people) make the choice of what fits their needs.

Do we have one size and type of home for everyone ? It's not one fuel that fits everyones needs, the future has fueling stations that supply gasoline, diesel, battery charge/change, or CNG all in one place. Just remember, just because it doesn't fit your needs that doesn't mean it doesn't fit the needs of many others.

No one who is advocating EV has ever been able to explain the energy conversion from the current oil base. In order to replace all the cars with EV you would need to be able to convert all of the energy output of the oil based products over to electricity. That kind of energy requirement regardless of if its stored in batteries or not is many many times the current amount of energy supplied by non fossil fuel electrical energy today. We are struggling to supply 30% of our current electrcity requirement in "clean" power. I cannot even imagine the enormous power generation that would be required do complete EV. Solar is by no means as efficient as need be to fill the whole need. Wind is just about as bad. Nuclear could do it if we could manage to satisfy the fears over its safety. But everyone who ever talks about this just never seems to grasp the enormous electrical generation transmission and storage requirements. The current energy output from oil has to go on top of our current energy requirements (something we are struggling with in its own right) and that amount of energy is massive.