Great Depression of 2016

[rufus]

Everyone has their take on this problem. I see the source of the problem as the rise of organized labor. They demanded higher wages without a corresponding rise in production. That money has to come from somewhere. They can cheapen the product, but people soon catch on to that. Make it fast, make it cheap, make it plastic. You can sell them one cheap, shoddy product, but you can never do it again.

The price of the product could be raised, but then foreign made products can under sell domestic products.

The increase in labor expense cannot come from profits, because then the company will lose their financing. So, it must come from holding down the wages of the non union employees. This created a two tier labor structure, the oppressed working class and the elite union members. The more the elite privileged earned, the less the real working class received.

Finally, the unions forced manufacturing to move abroad. Those companies that didn't went bankrupt, or they got sold off.

Foreign investors don't buy US companies to deal with truculent unions and oppressive government regulations. No, they buy US companies to get access to markets, patents and technology. But above all, they buy these companies to provide employment for their own people. The company may still have its headquarters in the US, but the ownership is abroad.

The product still has an American sounding name, looks the same, but it is made in China, Japan or Korea.

International companies tend to lose money on products made and sold in the US. They make money on products made and sold abroad.

A gang of robots can replace hundreds of union welders. And, they consistently produce a high quality product without calling in sick, demanding parental leave and expensive health insurance.

The unions killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[hemet dennis]

Everyone has their take on this problem. I see the source of the problem as the rise of organized labor. They demanded higher wages without a corresponding rise in production. That money has to come from somewhere. They can cheapen the product, but people soon catch on to that. Make it fast, make it cheap, make it plastic. You can sell them one cheap, shoddy product, but you can never do it again.

The price of the product could be raised, but then foreign made products can under sell domestic products.

The increase in labor expense cannot come from profits, because then the company will lose their financing. So, it must come from holding down the wages of the non union employees. This created a two tier labor structure, the oppressed working class and the elite union members. The more the elite privileged earned, the less the real working class received.

Finally, the unions forced manufacturing to move abroad. Those companies that didn't went bankrupt, or they got sold off.

Foreign investors don't buy US companies to deal with truculent unions and oppressive government regulations. No, they buy US companies to get access to markets, patents and technology. But above all, they buy these companies to provide employment for their own people. The company may still have its headquarters in the US, but the ownership is abroad.

The product still has an American sounding name, looks the same, but it is made in China, Japan or Korea.

International companies tend to lose money on products made and sold in the US. They make money on products made and sold abroad.

A gang of robots can replace hundreds of union welders. And, they consistently produce a high quality product without calling in sick, demanding parental leave and expensive health insurance.

The unions killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Blaming one thing is being overly simplistic.

How many people in the country are employed as drivers ? In the next 10 years or less those jobs will start disappearing. Driver less cars and trucks will be on the roads. As a business owner, why do I need to put a paid driver in the delivery truck ?
That will even put others out of jobs. Cars and trucks will last longer and crash less. That will mean less jobs making cars and trucks and repairing cars and trucks. Most delivery trucks will be on the roads at night, when there is less traffic, so less new roads will be needed. That will cost more jobs.
That's just one industry that will cost millions of jobs.

 

[WYNot]

While automation does away with certain jobs; it doesn't destroy jobs. it merely shifts jobs around. It will also create lots of other new jobs. Someone has to maintain those vehicles. Someone has to program them. Yes, those low skilled jobs may go away but skilled trades jobs will be created to support the automated vehicles.

Got rather tired of hearing the same argument about robots and automated factories. The robots, again, replaced low skilled jobs. But at the same time it created high skill job opportunities in the design, building, programming, implementation, and maintaining of those facilities.

Hell, the same arguments were tossed around when automobiles started to come around. Oh no! What will all the wagon wheel makers do? What will all the farriers do? What about all the stable owners?

Jobs and skills are not a static landscape. They are always changing. Humans will do what they have done for ages; adapt or go hungry.

Blaming one thing is being overly simplistic.

How many people in the country are employed as drivers ? In the next 10 years or less those jobs will start disappearing. Driver less cars and trucks will be on the roads. As a business owner, why do I need to put a paid driver in the delivery truck ?
That will even put others out of jobs. Cars and trucks will last longer and crash less. That will mean less jobs making cars and trucks and repairing cars and trucks. Most delivery trucks will be on the roads at night, when there is less traffic, so less new roads will be needed. That will cost more jobs.
That's just one industry that will cost millions of jobs.

 

[rufus]

I find driverless cars some what scary. I guess we just have to be more cautious.

I think unmanned shipping might be more understandable. Just load the ship and program the computer. Then watch it sail away.

 

[Oliver Douglas]

I find driverless cars some what scary. I guess we just have to be more cautious.

I think unmanned shipping might be more understandable. Just load the ship and program the computer. Then watch it sail away.

I moved to the Sierras to get away from Silicon Valley traffic...trust me, they already HAVE driver-less cars...unfortunately, there is a loose nut behind the steering wheel....must be a manufacturing or design defect....

 

[chiques chicks]

After reading the first post on this thread, I'll say this:

I, too, had parents who grew up during the great depression. Before the depression, they were or tenant farmers, working for others in exchange for a place to live. During the winter months, when there wasn't much farm work, they butchered for other farmers, keeping the parts of the animals the others didn't want. They canned, they preserved fruits and vegetables in season.

When the depression hit, their lives didn't change. It had little effect on those just scraping by. They told me " poor people didn't get hit as hard by the depression, we had nothing to lose."

Hopefully they instilled some of those values in me.

Today we have government programs, set up because of those times, so people have "things." There is no need to improvise, struggle, and do without. If, and when, hard times hit again, the government won't be able to cover all the need. Those who are accustomed to doing without, and doing for themselves, will be able to continue something resembling a normal (for them) life.

It's not about prepping for a depression, it's about being prepared for life, taking care of yourself and those you care about.

 

[Oliver Douglas]

After reading the first post on this thread, I'll say this:

I, too, had parents who grew up during the great depression. Before the depression, they were or tenant farmers, working for others in exchange for a place to live. During the winter months, when there wasn't much farm work, they butchered for other farmers, keeping the parts of the animals the others didn't want. They canned, they preserved fruits and vegetables in season.

When the depression hit, their lives didn't change. It had little effect on those just scraping by. They told me " poor people didn't get hit as hard by the depression, we had nothing to lose."

Hopefully they instilled some of those values in me.

Today we have government programs, set up because of those times, so people have "things." There is no need to improvise, struggle, and do without. If, and when, hard times hit again, the government won't be able to cover all the need. Those who are accustomed to doing without, and doing for themselves, will be able to continue something resembling a normal (for them) life.

It's not about prepping for a depression, it's about being prepared for life, taking care of yourself and those you care about.

You've nailed it. Many people these days have evolved into "I want it now", "I want the newest, the biggest, the fastest" group...not "It's a necessity of life" mentality. Nothing, except for vehicles or major appliances, are repaired...just replaced. I remember when cigarette lighters were refilled and reused. Would take bad tubes from the old 21 inch television to Thrifty Drug stores, checked them out, and replaced if necessary. The new technology on many items requires specialized repair shops and technicians. Sometimes cheaper just to junk them. I just bought an old style razor that uses "safety blades", cheap to refill. Don't need five separate blades on a disposable razor! Only have one face....a throwaway culture is throwing more than just trash away. During WWII, my parents had to conserve everything, bacon grease, tires, gasoline...due their shortages in support of the war effort. They made do through sacrifice and being thrifty. But today's standard of living is so different than those times. The cost of electronics has fallen dramatically over the years. Even so, I still have a five year old cell phone. Don't need to be texting, checking out the latest scandals hourly, or posting a selfie. One good thing about once living in the Santa Clara Valley was earthquake preparedness...have camping equipment that can get us through times of no electricity due to storms up here in the Sierras. Keep cars at least half filled up with gas. Know where the house gas shutoff valve is with a wrench to close it off. Buy non-perishables in bulk. Keep canned meats in inventory, rotate them for expiration dates (although I think SPAM, like Hostess Twinkies, will survive the Apocalypse). A little hardship makes you a stronger person. Just my two cents.

 

[WYNot]

The old SPAM, perhaps. The new stuff with the pull top, not so much. Have read a number of personal accounts of people who go to check their stocks and find SPAM that is only a month or so past "sell by" date bulging and ready to explode. Do they even make SPAM that requires a key to open any more?

Keep canned meats in inventory, rotate them for expiration dates (although I think SPAM, like Hostess Twinkies, will survive the Apocalypse). A little hardship makes you a stronger person. Just my two cents.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Everyone has their take on this problem. I see the source of the problem as the rise of organized labor. They demanded higher wages without a corresponding rise in production. That money has to come from somewhere. They can cheapen the product, but people soon catch on to that. Make it fast, make it cheap, make it plastic. You can sell them one cheap, shoddy product, but you can never do it again.

The price of the product could be raised, but then foreign made products can under sell domestic products.

The increase in labor expense cannot come from profits, because then the company will lose their financing. So, it must come from holding down the wages of the non union employees. This created a two tier labor structure, the oppressed working class and the elite union members. The more the elite privileged earned, the less the real working class received.

Finally, the unions forced manufacturing to move abroad. Those companies that didn't went bankrupt, or they got sold off.

Foreign investors don't buy US companies to deal with truculent unions and oppressive government regulations. No, they buy US companies to get access to markets, patents and technology. But above all, they buy these companies to provide employment for their own people. The company may still have its headquarters in the US, but the ownership is abroad.

The product still has an American sounding name, looks the same, but it is made in China, Japan or Korea.

International companies tend to lose money on products made and sold in the US. They make money on products made and sold abroad.

A gang of robots can replace hundreds of union welders. And, they consistently produce a high quality product without calling in sick, demanding parental leave and expensive health insurance.

The unions killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Unions got a knife stab in on killing the goose but they would have survived that alone. But as you said, they took a hit from taxes an regulations an free trade. The goose was stabbed to death from all sides...

 

[Oliver Douglas]

The old SPAM, perhaps. The new stuff with the pull top, not so much. Have read a number of personal accounts of people who go to check their stocks and find SPAM that is only a month or so past "sell by" date bulging and ready to explode. Do they even make SPAM that requires a key to open any more?

Well, the trick to keeping SPAM from exploding is to keep it cool, I guess. I don't think they make KEYED SPAM anymore....invoked too many swear words when you tried to open them and the darn thing broke off....leaving you with a half opened can and eggs getting cold....heck, I remember strips of bacon in a can! Opened the can, brought out well preserved bacon wrapped up in wax paper...and saltier than the Bonneville Salt Flats. Good times. Now it's pre-cooked bacon that you microwave....just not camping material for me...don't get me started on TURKEY bacon....checked out a turkey....not a slice of bacon to be found....