Quote:
That's not stupidity. They are not people pleasers.
That's not stupidity. They are not people pleasers.
Great Pyr and my flock ??'s
- Thread starter r4eboxer
- Start date
Quote:
everything you are complaining about (stupid, can't be trusted with other dogs, barks a lot) are ALL things that is normal to these dogs. LGD breeds are far from stupid! They think for themselves and are not quick to obey commands because they don't see the purpose. that's not stupidity, that's just the way they are. And no....they can't be trusted around strange dogs nor should they be expected to. These dogs live to guard you and your property from intruders and that includes other dogs. You were very unfair to subject your dog to that and then to abuse it so badly to break up the fight. There are much more intelligent and effective ways of breaking up a dog fight than kicking the crap out of your dog. The barking at night is also normal. It's the way they guard. They bark to tell potential predators of their presence and to stay away. ALL of the breed literature says they are this way so I have to wonder why you got one in the first place? These behaviors should not have been a surprise to you at all.
everything you are complaining about (stupid, can't be trusted with other dogs, barks a lot) are ALL things that is normal to these dogs. LGD breeds are far from stupid! They think for themselves and are not quick to obey commands because they don't see the purpose. that's not stupidity, that's just the way they are. And no....they can't be trusted around strange dogs nor should they be expected to. These dogs live to guard you and your property from intruders and that includes other dogs. You were very unfair to subject your dog to that and then to abuse it so badly to break up the fight. There are much more intelligent and effective ways of breaking up a dog fight than kicking the crap out of your dog. The barking at night is also normal. It's the way they guard. They bark to tell potential predators of their presence and to stay away. ALL of the breed literature says they are this way so I have to wonder why you got one in the first place? These behaviors should not have been a surprise to you at all.
I may have missed it but how are the GP's around children?
Everything I've ever heard people say about LGDs is that they need training (which is pretty true for any dog if you think about it.)
From what the OP is stating, it sounds like she does not have the time necessary to dedicate to training a good sound livestock dog. If that is the case, then it's a situation set up for failure before it gets started. There's only so far that genetics can take a dog. You can't stick them outside and expect them to be good at guarding livestock and to read your mind for what you want from them.
If you don't have the time to train a dog, don't get a dog (I wish to God that more people would follow this rule). I've heard a lot of good things about donkeys jealously guarding their pens on the forums. Maybe give them a try, and put the coop in with them. They'll stomp most predators to death. No training required.
From what the OP is stating, it sounds like she does not have the time necessary to dedicate to training a good sound livestock dog. If that is the case, then it's a situation set up for failure before it gets started. There's only so far that genetics can take a dog. You can't stick them outside and expect them to be good at guarding livestock and to read your mind for what you want from them.
If you don't have the time to train a dog, don't get a dog (I wish to God that more people would follow this rule). I've heard a lot of good things about donkeys jealously guarding their pens on the forums. Maybe give them a try, and put the coop in with them. They'll stomp most predators to death. No training required.
Good luck! It sounds like a nice option for you. I wish I had more land....I would get one of these dogs. I know several people who have them. I feel like I have some kind of protection by "proxy", as about 1/2 mile down our dirt road they have two. They have stopped by our yard a time or two. Yes, they do wander. BUT, when we hear a coyote at night, all it takes is one bark and those coyotes quit right there.
We have 2 LGD's, a neutered male pyr and a spayed female Anatolian. We got them primarily to guard our Nigerian Dwarf goats, but we also have chickens, guineas, & ducks so I can give you my experience with that.
We started with the Pyr in a small pasture with the goats (60ft by 120ft) and the chickens free ranging on the rest of the property. The pyr did great protecting the goats but killed any chickens that made their way into the goat pen. Now, this was when he was still in his puppy phase (about 1.5yrs-2 yrs) which is pretty typical. We tried a few ways to train him out of this, some were well-planned and others were...less so. (I will admit that I once chased him around the pasture with a dead chicken, screaming and crying at him....but to be fair it was one of my favorite hens and I was pretty devastated to find her.)
Not sure if any of the training methods had an impact, more likely the combination of him getting older/more mature and him being able to see the birds nearby and make the connection that they were part of the farm and part of his guarding responsibility. Now we have the whole 5 acres fenced and cross-fenced so that the goats & LGDs are on a big section that makes an 'L' shape around the house and the chickens free-range in the acre or so around the house. We have several chickens who like to wander in and out of the goat pasture at will and the LGDs leave them alone even if the birds wander right next to them.
Though their main job is guarding the goats, the dogs definitely help protect the birds, since any predator would have to go through the goat pasture to get to the chickens unless they came accross the street in front of the house and over the front fence. Also, the dogs patrol the property, marking it and barking to ward off predators so most stay far away. At night, we often open the gate between the back pasture and the area around the house and coop so that the dogs can patrol there as well and mark their territory to keep away raccoons, skunks, etc. They even watch the sky for hawks and make a big fuss when any try to fly over.
Obviously, no guardian is going to be perfect, but I think ours are worth their weight in gold as we used to lose 1 or 2 birds a week at times when coyotes and other predators would come right up and steal them with impunity.
We started with the Pyr in a small pasture with the goats (60ft by 120ft) and the chickens free ranging on the rest of the property. The pyr did great protecting the goats but killed any chickens that made their way into the goat pen. Now, this was when he was still in his puppy phase (about 1.5yrs-2 yrs) which is pretty typical. We tried a few ways to train him out of this, some were well-planned and others were...less so. (I will admit that I once chased him around the pasture with a dead chicken, screaming and crying at him....but to be fair it was one of my favorite hens and I was pretty devastated to find her.)
Not sure if any of the training methods had an impact, more likely the combination of him getting older/more mature and him being able to see the birds nearby and make the connection that they were part of the farm and part of his guarding responsibility. Now we have the whole 5 acres fenced and cross-fenced so that the goats & LGDs are on a big section that makes an 'L' shape around the house and the chickens free-range in the acre or so around the house. We have several chickens who like to wander in and out of the goat pasture at will and the LGDs leave them alone even if the birds wander right next to them.
Though their main job is guarding the goats, the dogs definitely help protect the birds, since any predator would have to go through the goat pasture to get to the chickens unless they came accross the street in front of the house and over the front fence. Also, the dogs patrol the property, marking it and barking to ward off predators so most stay far away. At night, we often open the gate between the back pasture and the area around the house and coop so that the dogs can patrol there as well and mark their territory to keep away raccoons, skunks, etc. They even watch the sky for hawks and make a big fuss when any try to fly over.
Obviously, no guardian is going to be perfect, but I think ours are worth their weight in gold as we used to lose 1 or 2 birds a week at times when coyotes and other predators would come right up and steal them with impunity.
Quote:
Typically, they are extremely good around children. There are no small kids on the ranch, but as soon as a child shows up, my Maremmas are beside them and walk in step with them. They accept ear pulling, hair pulling and other sundry abuses from children without so much as a yelp. They are highly intelligent dogs but self driven. If they weren't they would be useless. They have to make split decisions on their own in order to do their jobs. They make terrible obedience dogs, not because they are willful, or stupid, but because they prioritize and parlor tricks are not a priority, nor is people pleasing. They are very instinctive but do need some training as far as correction as puppies from chasing stock or other puppy behaviors. The best trainer for an LGD is an older LGD. Anyone who thinks these are stupid dogs, or should behave like other dogs has no knowledge of the LGD breeds. they are fabulous animals but studying up on them is a must before getting one, if you want success. This is why so many wind up in shelters and why so many LGD breeders will not sell to someone who has not had experience with them.
Typically, they are extremely good around children. There are no small kids on the ranch, but as soon as a child shows up, my Maremmas are beside them and walk in step with them. They accept ear pulling, hair pulling and other sundry abuses from children without so much as a yelp. They are highly intelligent dogs but self driven. If they weren't they would be useless. They have to make split decisions on their own in order to do their jobs. They make terrible obedience dogs, not because they are willful, or stupid, but because they prioritize and parlor tricks are not a priority, nor is people pleasing. They are very instinctive but do need some training as far as correction as puppies from chasing stock or other puppy behaviors. The best trainer for an LGD is an older LGD. Anyone who thinks these are stupid dogs, or should behave like other dogs has no knowledge of the LGD breeds. they are fabulous animals but studying up on them is a must before getting one, if you want success. This is why so many wind up in shelters and why so many LGD breeders will not sell to someone who has not had experience with them.
- Mar 4, 2011
- 308
- 3
- 111
I have had our Pyr for about a year..She just turned 5 and was a rescue. The previous owner just could not keep her anymore as she'd moved...There are a few things that I'd like to work with her on..Does anyone know of a good book for this? She's a great dog, love the Pyr hand shake, sleeping upside down on her back, etc...But this winter is her first real test to see if she can keep the preditors away...
- Thread starter
- #39
I didn't call the breeder yesterday, I didn't have the time to talk with her like I wanted. It seems some people love these dogs and some really hate them.
I am trying to do my best and learn what I need to know before getting any LGD. I do have the time to train them, as one poster stated that I said I did not. I just want to know what I am getting into before I get into it. I know nothing about donkeys so I don't think I will get one of those to guard but thanks for the suggestion but not what I am looking for.
DH said to go ahead and get them, why am I taking so long to make up my mind. I guess it is because there are some people so against them. I feel like there must be something to that and maybe I will be making a mistake with this breed. Perhaps it is just the people and not the dogs?
Oh and I don't just want to say "hey look at my great big white dog" as someone stated. I actually don't like it that they are white. I have taken the fact that I will need to spend some additional time grooming with this breed and though I am prepared to do that it is not something that I am jumping for joy over.
I really want the right dog and really want to be the best owner I can be, honestly I really do.
I am trying to do my best and learn what I need to know before getting any LGD. I do have the time to train them, as one poster stated that I said I did not. I just want to know what I am getting into before I get into it. I know nothing about donkeys so I don't think I will get one of those to guard but thanks for the suggestion but not what I am looking for.
DH said to go ahead and get them, why am I taking so long to make up my mind. I guess it is because there are some people so against them. I feel like there must be something to that and maybe I will be making a mistake with this breed. Perhaps it is just the people and not the dogs?
Oh and I don't just want to say "hey look at my great big white dog" as someone stated. I actually don't like it that they are white. I have taken the fact that I will need to spend some additional time grooming with this breed and though I am prepared to do that it is not something that I am jumping for joy over.
I really want the right dog and really want to be the best owner I can be, honestly I really do.
- Jun 4, 2011
- 3,595
- 582
- 296
The reason that some people are against them is that there is NOTHING in the world that is right for everone, esp dog breeds. Me? I hate labs and goldens. Think they are the stupidest dogs on the face of the earth, esp labs. Never met one that wasn't dumb as a box of rocks. Sweet dogs and total lovebugs, but wouldn't take one if ya paid me.
Talk with the breeder, ask questions. She will tell you if she doesn't think you are the right person for these dogs.
Talk with the breeder, ask questions. She will tell you if she doesn't think you are the right person for these dogs.
Similar threads
New posts New threads Active threads
-
Latest threads
-
-
9 Week Old Buff Orpington Cockerel Trying to Mate? Is This Normal?- Started by GlicksChicks
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
Found rat poop in chicken feed - how long do we need to refrain from eating eggs?
- Started by thewhimsicalflock
- Replies: 0
-
-
Threads with more replies in the last 15 days
-
-
-
-
Open Contest BYC's 4th of July Star Spangled Hatch-Along—Stars, Stripes, & Feathers, a Text-to-Image Contest- Started by Debbie292d
- Replies: 82
-
-
