HELP! Showgirl chicks keep dying

[Pyxis]

I don't think it's worms, I don't know how they would have gotten them if you picked up newly hatched ones like you said, there shouldn't have been a way for them to come into contact with anything that they could get worms from. The stinky poop you describe was likely a cecal poop, totally normal.

Since you changed the temperature, have you had any more losses? I ask since you mention you just made that fix two nights ago.

Also make sure none of the lights you are using have what's called a "shatterproof" coating. It puts off fumes that are toxic to birds.

 

[WoolyMantis]

@3riverschick i have a hygrometer in both, everyone kept telling me to up the temp which is why i put the 250watt in there, the temp is now steady at 94, but i am now moving the little chicks back to the bigger brooder with the bigger, healthier chicks. i'm stressed so may be mixed up but i put them in the tank yesterday to separate them, i had 7 deaths before that, now i'm up to 11

 

[WoolyMantis]

@Pyxis oh i would never use the teflon, shatter proof bulbs, though good point since so many newbies have been using them. it is the 250watt heatbulbs you get at Tractor Supply with the chick stuff.

4 died today, before today i had 7 die over a few day period, the 4th one actually died while i was writing this original post. They are all being moved again now, so i am hoping to not have another death, one does look very lethargic

 

[Pyxis]

Well I'm really stumped here. If they're still dying it doesn't sound like a heat thing. Pasty butt you're taking care of and you said most that died didn't have it. Bedding is fine, temperature is fine. You're adding vitamins to the water.

Only thing I can possibly think of is maybe coccidiosis. I know you're feeding medicated but maybe that's not enough. You could try treating for that and see what happens.

Otherwise, I'm inclined to blame bad breeding stock, especially since the breeder professes to lose 50% of them on a regular basis. Maybe they're very inbred or something, or maybe the parents aren't being fed correctly.

Honestly if they just keep dying like this and you can't find a cause I wouldn't breed the survivors because something is not right there.

A necropsy sounds like a good idea since you've saved some of the bodies. A lot of state universities will do them. What state are you in, maybe we can point you in the right direction?

 

[3riverschick]

Bedding is pine shavings, i have been giving them sav-a-chick in their water as well as the tub of vitamins and electolytes with lacto bacillus, only gave them that in their water recently
yes a few of them have had pasty butt issues, pretty badly, i just finished rinsing their butts a bit ago which is why it took me a while to get back here.
Though all but 2 that have died did not have the pasty butt issue

i am wondering if worms might be a cause, one has fresh poo on it's butt that i just rinsed off, it had been piling, but it was very, very stinky, unlike the others that didn't really smell, it was fresher though so that may be why. it almost looked like a tapeworm type thing was in it...but i am pretty sure that was just the fresh poop and my imagination trying to find a cause. The pasty butt issue seems to be with the same 3 or 4, 1 died days ago that had poopy butt

Both those products have salt in them. Could be too much salt and too little humidity? It happened to another breeder earlier this year. Take out at least one of the salted products. Instead give them a small helping of Okios Triple Zero yogurt. Leave it in only about 10 minutes so it doesn't sour under the lamp. Give the 3 with pasty butt just a bit of molasses. It will act s a laxative. Not a lot , just a bit.
I use Bovidr labs Poultry Nutri-Drench. It is molasses based nutritional supplement which doesn't need digested. Combats pasty butt and the runs, jump starts the G.I. tract and help restore the immune system. http://www.nutridrench.com I use it in the water so the water looks like weak tea. I give each chick one drop only by mouth. For needy chicks, repeat every 8-10 hours until perky. The problem with electrolytes is they still need to be digested and that challenges an already stressed G.I. tract in the weak chick. Drench mainlines directly into the bloodstream, all natural, measurable in the bloodstream in minutes.
My next chicks , which are coming in April will be raised in the Drench water , medicated chick feed and (after the 1st week, chick grit).

 

[WoolyMantis]

@Pyxis i'm not sure if i mentioned this, i did on the FB post but am posting back and forth. one thing the breeder and i were both thinking could very well be the cause of this is the fact that several had hatched last Sunday when i got them in an incubator in the car and were instantly taken out and put in with my others for a 2 1/2 hr car ride with just hand warmer packs....we are wondering if the ones dying are the ones that hatched last since they did not get a chance to stay in the incubator for long, i normally keep my chicks in the incubator for over 24hrs before even opening it......This could be the case, and i think that's what she meant about the 50% mortality rate.....not sure but maybe, she has not had this many deaths out of hers that she incubates at home.

i am still at a loss, i hope this is the result of stress from last Sunday's drive home.....

i live in missouri, we have an awesome university about 2 1/2 hrs away that i can probably take them to, they are amazing and i bet they would do the necropsy's. i will make sure to call them in the morning if i cannot find anyone closer

Thanks so much to all the replies

i have moved the remaining little chicks in the big brooder, out of the glass tank, and so far they are running around scratching for food and acting fairly normal. i will keep an eye on them

 

[WoolyMantis]

@3riverschick perhaps i should include both regular water and the vitamin water, or do you think i should take the vitamin water out for a while and give them fresh water, maybe do an every other day thing? i wasn't giving them the vitamin water everyday until a few days ago due to the deaths, it was almost everyday but i'd put fresh water in between the vitamin water in case they weren't drinking it.
oh and i didn't write that correctly, i started with the sav-a-chick in the beginning and recently switched to the tub of vitamins, not giving both at the same time

 

[WoolyMantis]

@3riverschick Thank you! I will look for that, or order it if none of our stores carry it for sure. i'll try the molasses now since i have it and put them on regular water for the night, i've been using a dropper to make sure the tiny, lethargic chicks get fluids since i haven't seen her move around a whole lot other than to eat

 

[3riverschick]

@3riverschick perhaps i should include both regular water and the vitamin water, or do you think i should take the vitamin water out for a while and give them fresh water, maybe do an every other day thing? i wasn't giving them the vitamin water everyday until a few days ago due to the deaths, it was almost everyday but i'd put fresh water in between the vitamin water in case they weren't drinking it.
oh and i didn't write that correctly, i started with the sav-a-chick in the beginning and recently switched to the tub of vitamins, not giving both at the same time

Ok. Well might try just fresh water and watch them closely. If they start to fade a bit, maybe put in 2 waterers. One with fresh and one with vitamins. Travel stress does kill chicks. That's one reason it's a good idea to give a dose of the Drench right after they hatch. Being hatched is stress enough, let alone a trip to a new home. As long as the chciks were dry, I am not sure taking them right away was the problem. More probably the trip itself was the problem , even if they had been a day old. But it is anyway, even if they ere going to a pet store or another breeder. That's just the way it is with baby chicks.
The international commercial chick ( broiler and layer) industry is working on this problem right now. One thing they have discovered is that chicks usually reach their new home ( grow out ranches) at about 36 hours post hatch. They have discovered they can make the losses from travel less if they feed the chicks no later than 6 hours after hatch. Usually the chicks are kept in the incubator or hatcher for 12 hours before a meal. Now they are feeding them no later than 6 hours after hatch and are seeing fewer losses. So it is not just us smaller breeders seeing this problem.
Best,
Karen

 

[WoolyMantis]

@3riverschick Thank you, I have not used the drench and am excited about adding a new product to my chick inventory, it sounds like it will be very useful for future hatchings as well!!