Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Yellow House Farm]

Barring and slowness:

Two elements:

Barring, be it black and white barring or crele patterned birds, etc..., is created by a release and a restriction of pigment. There is no white pigment in feathers, there is only black and red. All colors and patterns are developed out of the redistribution, obstruction, or dilution of these two colors. Barring occurs as a feather begins to grow, imagine a wine bottle of pigment that corks and uncorks, corks and uncorks, corks and uncorks, again and again as the feathers grow. Barred Rocks are black birds; however, as the feather grows the gene that causes barring intermittently restricts the release of black pigment such that the color emerges as black, no black, black, no black, black, no black. The effect is a bird that appears black and white, but it's really a black-no black bird.


There are various genes that control feather growth. There fast feathering and slow feathering. There are also slower feathering and slowest feathering (these aren't the scientific names for them but their more explicative). Slower feathering and slowest feathering are not desirable. Current breeds are fast feathering or slow feathering. Slow feathering birds take longer to feather out and there is also a correlated effect on rate of growth. It is not extreme, but it is present.

In order to maintain, or achieve, the nice, smooth, ringlet barring of the standard-bred Barred Plymouth Rock, one needs the slow feathering gene so that the releasing and restriction of pigment happens in a smooth, balanced manner. "Crele" or Dominique patterning is the Barred gene on a fast feathering bird. The effect is a more zig-zagged barring. Consider hasty drawing to a slow and steady stroke. It also explains the clearer color definition in barred birds versus the less extreme color definition in crele birds.

This also explains why outcrossing Barred Rocks of White Rocks results in Dominique quality barring. The slow feathering gene is eclipsed and the ability to produce steady barring is impaired.

Thus, although standard-bred Barred Plymouth Rocks would not be a strong candidate for a broiler industry, they should still be ready to go in an appropriate period of time.

 

[Wisher1000]

I am starting a calendar for what needs to be done at what time. My goal is a standard guide for what activities need to be accomplished each month. Do any of you have this already written down or is it just ingrained in your brains? For example, what is happening in your flocks in October (moult progress? preping for November shows? cleaning and setting up the breeder pens?, starting supplements for fertility and egg production? supplemental lighting begins?) What will happen in November? December?

I would love to hear the month to month benchmarks that you shoot for or that you look for in your birds at the age they've reached. I know that sometimes it depends on weather trends in different areas, but a general guide would be most helpful.

 

[BGMatt]

Matt, for production, or even profit, what breeds would you be looking at? I agree about 2 flocks. While contemplating things over on the Farming thread, the thought of an SOP flock and a production flock are rather off-putting.

Too broad a question to answer completely, I think almost any breed can be selectively breed to be decent meat and egg production wise, but I would look at the breeds that were commercially successful in the first half of the 1900's: Rhode Island Reds, Leghorns, New Hampshire, Delaware, Plymouth Rock. Those were the last breeds to be relevant before all the hybrids and heavy industrialization. I think the Dorking has merits too, before I got rid of them I was shocked at how fast they grew to a good market size (Silver Greys from Duane Urch) and started laying. 20 weeks for eggs and the cockerels were about 6 lbs or so at 22 weeks.

Edit: as mentioned in other thread, growth rates will slow if ranging birds and/or diluting food, both of which are novice mistakes, keep it simple. Adequate but not humongous grow out pens, and a good balanced commercial diet (preferably with meat protein) that's not diluted with all sorts of stuff for their sole ration.

 

[Wisher1000]

Barring and slowness:

Two elements:

Barring, be it black and white barring or crele patterned birds, etc..., is created by a release and a restriction of pigment. There is no white pigment in feathers, there is only black and red. All colors and patterns are developed out of the redistribution, obstruction, or dilution of these two colors. Barring occurs as a feather begins to grow, imagine a wine bottle of pigment that corks and uncorks, corks and uncorks, corks and uncorks, again and again as the feathers grow. Barred Rocks are black birds; however, as the feather grows the gene that causes barring intermittently restricts the release of black pigment such that the color emerges as black, no black, black, no black, black, no black. The effect is a bird that appears black and white, but it's really a black-no black bird.


There are various genes that control feather growth. There fast feathering and slow feathering. There are also slower feathering and slowest feathering (these aren't the scientific names for them but their more explicative). Slower feathering and slowest feathering are not desirable. Current breeds are fast feathering or slow feathering. Slow feathering birds take longer to feather out and there is also a correlated effect on rate of growth. It is not extreme, but it is present.

In order to maintain, or achieve, the nice, smooth, ringlet barring of the standard-bred Barred Plymouth Rock, one needs the slow feathering gene so that the releasing and restriction of pigment happens in a smooth, balanced manner. "Crele" or Dominique patterning is the Barred gene on a fast feathering bird. The effect is a more zig-zagged barring. Consider hasty drawing to a slow and steady stroke. It also explains the clearer color definition in barred birds versus the less extreme color definition in crele birds.

This also explains why outcrossing Barred Rocks of White Rocks results in Dominique quality barring. The slow feathering gene is eclipsed and the ability to produce steady barring is impaired.

Thus, although standard-bred Barred Plymouth Rocks would not be a strong candidate for a broiler industry, they should still be ready to go in an appropriate period of time.

Great info, Thank you!

Quote: Matt, what would you consider "adequate but not humongous" grow out pens? Say per chick or even expressed in lots of 10, 25, or 50?

 

[armorfirelady]

Thank you yellow house for the great information. I never knew white was not a coloring in birds. How very cool to learn how barring becomes on feathers

 

[BGMatt]

Great info, Thank you!

Matt, what would you consider "adequate but not humongous" grow out pens? Say per chick or even expressed in lots of 10, 25, or 50?

In the past I have always used 12'x12' pens (convenient because that's the size those chain link dog kennels come out to, great for temporary grow out pens! If you want to move them for fresh grass that makes it possible too) I'd start with up to 40-50 in there at about 6 weeks old (sometimes I wait til 8 weeks which is my first culling age) and by the time the birds are 6 months old there would be 20-25 or less in there (culling for vigor, growth rate, obvious defects/disqualifications as I go). I try to keep it around 1 sqft per bird per month of age for growing out. One factor that I feel is critical for good growth rates as well is separating the cockerels and pullets as soon as possible if your set up allows.

 

[Chris Herzog]

If there is anyone looking to make a show and your close to Baton Rouge La..... We have our first show coming up Nov 9th on the LSU campus. It will be a double show and we already have well over 300 birds entered. If everyone that says they are coming enters we should be over 500 birds by the dead line on Thursday October 31st.

For more info go to our clubs web site. Sorry I'm on my phone and can't post the link but google....

Gulf Coast Poultry Faincier's Association

And you should find it with no problem....or just PM me and I will get you the link and any info you need.

Hope to see you there!
Chris

 

[3riverschick]

I am starting a calendar for what needs to be done at what time. My goal is a standard guide for what activities need to be accomplished each month. (snipped for brevity)

Chickens and how to Raise Them - Page 150
Arthur Tysilio Johnson - 1910 - ‎Read
CHAPTER XIII THE POULTRY KEEPER'S CALENDAR
http://tinyurl.com/l8b4rr2
==============
The Poultryman's Handbook: A Convenient Reference Book for All Persons ...
International Correspondence Schools - 1920
Page 233 ( starts in October)
http://tinyurl.com/p7plxj3
CALENDAR FOR THE POULTRYMAN'S YEAR

=======================
Storey's Guide to Raising Poultry: Chickens, Turkeys, Ducks, ...
Glenn Drowns - 2012 - ‎Preview - ‎Page 418
A Typical Two Year Cycle With Chickens ( Karen: Month-By-Month)
http://tinyurl.com/krv3oqy
Hum, I know that author's name. On another BYC thread, were discussing that rare breed
of poultry he has the other day. What was it? Oh, "Ohio Beauties", that was the breed.
This is a preview book, so only shows Jan. thru mid Oct. of the 1st year.
Need to buy the book if you want the rest of the 2 year cycle.
-----------
Best,
Karen

 

[Arielle]

There are lots of "tricks" for vigor, but--as always--it comes down to numbers and focus. You have to have enough of the same thing to develop a lucid appreciation for variance. Obviously there is the easy selection piece of culling individual birds that fall ill when the others are fine, or those that succumb extremely while the others just seem to be bit off. Cull them out. Then there are subtle points. In the winter, are there birds that sit on the roosts all day fluffing their feathers, trying to generate heat, versus those consistently down in the litter looking for tidbits? Are there birds that carry their tail or wing in a droop? Are there birds that are consistenly sitting out on range while others are foraging? Are their eyes bright and well defined with clearly outline parts? Do they redden in the head gear at the appropriate time or do they take too long to express sexual maturity? When you separate cockerels from pullets, a couple of week later do you suddenly find a couple of cockerels in with your pullets that you had erroneously kept with the pullets because they were maturing less quickly than their confreres? Inordinate slowness to mature is a clear sign of lack of vigor.

Back to only raising the number of breeds for which one can hatch a significant number of each--for most of us this will be on or, maybe, two. One should not have to choose between type and vigor. If one hatches so few that there is one that is typical and one that is vigorous then, yes, one chooses the vigorous bird. However, if one is sufficiently disciplined and focused, one has enough birds such that one has those that are typical without vigor, vigorous without type, and some that are both typical and vigorous; these latter are those kept. It always comes down to the numbers one has for selection and how much variance is needed from the parent stock. The further off the parent stock is from the projected goal, the more one needs to rely on genetic variance to pop out the desired end, which means the more one needs to hatch in order hit the jackpot. One should be able to select in all matters of essential concern each season. If one can't, one is going in the wrong direction.

Thanks Joseph-- and all the more reason to pare down to just a couple breeds.

Quote: Karen you rock. Great resources.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Barring and slowness:


Thus, although standard-bred Barred Plymouth Rocks would not be a strong candidate for a broiler industry, they should still be ready to go in an appropriate period of time.

And there in lies the rub. What is appropriate? The records of the early 20th century suggest pullets beginning to lay at 28 weeks. These were birds with extraordinarily nice barring. Hefty broilers were taken for food at about the same time. Wind the clock forward a century to 2013 and while we have some stunning Barred Rocks and we certainly have made great strides in dietary science; we don't come close to those earlier development dates. We are a full 6-8 weeks slower and that is a long time and a lot of feed.

The obvious question of "why" must be addressed and addressing it is the challenge that we face. Some of us believe deeply that we've got to work harder and place higher emphasis upon these issues.