how much space per chicken

[Pineywoodstx]

I would just like to say to Davaroo that I really appreciate the historical perspective on space requirements. Those numbers were not something I had heard before.

 

[Davaroo]

I would just like to say to Davaroo that I really appreciate the historical perspective on space requirements. Those numbers were not something I had heard before.

Well, thank you.
I've made a mistake, perhaps, in pursuing a study in poultry culture. This extends not only to general husbandry courses and popular 'chicken books', but also to the old farm study courses of the late 1800-early 1900's.

There was a time when American poultrymen lagged behind the rest of the world. Our flocks were ragtag and the business, such as it was, suffered from horrid management and poor practices. It took a ton of work and dedication to turn this around and bring on poultrys small farm Golden Age. This has all but been forgotten.

So when I see and hear some of what goes around today, well... I have to remember that this is a hobby.

Sorry to have been a boor.

 

[mike001]

So when I see and hear some of what goes around today, well... I have to remember that this is a hobby.
Sorry to have been a boor.

I too value your input and I think the information you've discovered is fascinating. However, you're right, this is a hobby. What you're talking about was applied on a whole different scale, no? Hundreds of birds?

I think people who can do what you suggest should do so, within reason. But the reason I've been all up in your face is that for a small number of hobby birds, no one HAS to do this. I think you agree with this. And the consequences are not disaster or a biblical plague. It might be a bare patch of earth in the run or more frequent bedding changes. I just changed my bedding. Took me 3 minutes and cost $1.50. It's really not the end of the world.

Also let's put things into perspective again. The modern poultry egg industry crams five birds into a 2 square foot cage (or smaller), sometimes cutting off their beaks so they can't peck at each other. The meat industry crams thousands of birds into a large warehouse so that they can't walk around without bumping into each other.

These 4 square feet per bird or even 3 or 2 square feet per bird modern chicken maths are not based on today's poultry industry. Otherwise we'd be at half a square foot per bird or less.

 

[Davaroo]

Thanks, Mike.
It did have it's origins in large operations, yes. But, I like to examine such things to see where they can be used. Glibly tossing out a thing because it was used elsewhere, well, that seems a waste to me. So much was known before we came along, and we simply choose to ignore it. They did it all without electricity, without "education" and without Rodale Press. Having now glimpsed what they knew, I wish to stimulate a different way of seeing, if we have only 10 birds or... 10,000.
Remind me sometime to offer you my "Five Rules of Chickens."

Quote:
Correct. You can do what you want... all the time. I encourage it. Just as I will probably do something your great-great grandfather did. Read my sig line again.

Quote:
It is interesting, at least to me, that our great-grandfathers' made their chicken houses fit themselves and their work, not their birds. This is primarily because -
a). they made outside accommodations suffice as far as they could.
)b. They expected chickens to serve THEIR needs and then go to their own reward - chickens weren't pets.

The problem with "keeping things in perspective" is this: it inevitably means I must stand where you expect me to, if I am to see it.

So what about that 87.12 sq ft? It is a mathematical ideal for overall space, per bird. I selected it because those in the Golden Age of small flock keeping used it to great effect. It is precise and it is exacting. That we don't like it comes as no surprise.

BUT, we can adapt it to our uses as far as possible.
Keeping poultry changed for me when I got this figured out. While we're on that subject, have you ever heard of paddock rearing? You might like that.

P.S. If you can find a book called, "The Henyard," by Geoffrey Sykes, pay any price to get it. And you WILL pay... it was published only in small numbers, in 1952 and it is rare these days. But it can show you where all this can go for us.

 

[mike001]

I would like to hear your five rules of chickens!

 

[Pineywoodstx]

X2

 

[Reurra]

Ok I did it! I extended my run out by another 4 feet. now I have 10x10. That makes 100 sqft right? So I should be OK with 10 chickens? I hope so! my chicken coop building fund ran out with my last set of nails lol.

 

[Davaroo]

Ok I did it! I extended my run out by another 4 feet. now I have 10x10. That makes 100 sqft right? So I should be OK with 10 chickens? I hope so! my chicken coop building fund ran out with my last set of nails lol.

Sweet! The more the better. Can I give you a tip?
Find some straw or some other natural subsitute like leaves, crushed corn cob, peanut hulls, cane fodder, etc.
Lay this out of doors as a sort of deep litter, 4" thick, minimum. Let the birds run on this, instead of the ground. Let it weather and rake it over once a month. Replace it once a year.
Ensure your ground beneath is well drained.
Report back to us after a year.

 

[Davaroo]

Okay it took some doing - but I was able to fond a reference to the 'Five Rules of Chickens.' Back in the day (what.... years ago now??), I wrote a lot about it and even copyrighted an article - which I cannot now find. A few computer and flash drive failures caused it to disappear in cyberspace, I guess. But here is the gist of it:

The Five Rules of Chickens

1. Clean and proper food
2. Clean and fresh water.
3. Dry and well ventilated housing.
4. Protection from predators.
5. Cleanliness in all things, to include housing and surroundings.

Adhere to these Rules and little else needs be worried over with chickens.

NOTES - This is pretty basic stuff, right? But we mess with it all the time. We want to tinker with the poultry diet all the time, never happy with simple feeds of grain, meal and greens.
Or we shut up the chickens in coops so tightly constructed that they get all manner crud. Clean means not getting poop on our shoes, while the birds live in smelly mud or require incessant liming.
Some people get it, but many needlessly labor outside these simple things. Man, I hope I can find that stuff!

 

[Davaroo]

Here's a little more something I knocked out way back, 07/30/09. It might help in the discussion at hand.....

"How "big" in the run? 87.12 sq ft per bird as a minimum is ideal. {{ there it is again!}}
With this much space the earth itself will absorb much of the impact of their droppings and excavating.

Anything smaller, and you become a waste manager as part of your chickeneering efforts. 10 sq. feet per bird is a compromise, and based on the dogma that 'Waste is Part of the Experience.'
It is influenced by the commercial practices of the last 50 years. Seldom is it mentioned anymore, in our glee to "have chickens," that these critters are toxic when confined.
It is one of those things we have forgotten, or worse, accept as "normal."

I shun the notion, myself. I have a well-drained area 50 x 50 for a run... just part of my back yard, really. It is covered in low growth and there is a small grape arbor, as well. These things provide cover and shade for the birds as well as the comfort of perceived overhead protection, which they like. They are originally jungle fowl, after all.

According to my 87.12 sq ft. math, I can have 28.69 birds in there - but I will not. I will halve that.
And I will never have to lime, mulch, scrape or rake poo, wrinkle my nose, deal with flies or funk, etc. Conversely, the birds will not denude or exhibit any impact on the space.

My point is, that the smaller you make their confined living spaces the more you will learn the bad side of chickens. Give them more room and the experience edges into the sublime."

I've been singing this song for a long time, now that I think of it.