Hunting and the argument against it.

[vehve]

Food Inc. sheds some light on the process of manufacturing what is sold in stores. But I have to agree, after trying similar debates a few times, it's pretty hard to convince someone who doesn't want to know where their food comes from. I'd say hunted meat is about the most ethical way of procuring it. An animal has gotten to live in it's natural environment for it's whole life until it's days are numbered. A bullet is often a lot nicer way to go, than being killed by a predator or illness. Then there are of course always the people who think alcohol and hunting is a good combination - often resulting in far from perfect shots, which prolong the death causing unnecessary suffering to the animal. In my opinion, these people should have their guns taken away.

 

[vehve]

Has the person in question ever hit a deer? I changed my tune regarding hunting when I hit two in 6 months, with numerous close calls. Now I want everyone to go out and hunt, take all they can. I don't hunt-yet- but I sure respect those who do. As long as it's done respectfully, and with full intention of eating or donating the meat, of course.

And imagine the effect on predator population if animals lower in the food chain wouldn't be hunted. Wolves are not easily deterred by hugs, rainbows and happy thoughts.

 

[Bunnylady]

Many people prefer a beautiful lie over an ugly truth -- and not by any means just on the subject of hunting or meat. So before any of you criticize someone else for believing something you think is ridiculous, think of things YOU believe that you know others find ridiculous -- and imagine how YOU'D feel if someone tried to "enlighten" you with the ugly truth.

;-)

Sooooo - a salad really is a kind of rock formation?

Every person that has addressed the subject has basically said, "leave this person alone." How is that trying to "enlighten" anyone?

"Meat" is the muscles or organs of some type of animal, and sorry, but we ain't scavengers. As I said, it's nice to be able to distance oneself from the death, but everything in the meat department drew breath within the not-so-distant past. Plants are alive, too - anyone who has ever kept a house plant knows that. Life - our life - comes at the price of the death of something else. Some people go so far as to insist that they have a personal acquaintance with anything they eat; if that works for them, fine. I only have a problem with that if they insist that anyone that doesn't kill their own dinner doesn't deserve to eat it (plant as well as animal), because I think making food into a religion is elevating it to an unhealthy status. But that's me, being ridiculous.

 

[MeepBeep]

There are legit reasons to hunt besides eating, culling and reducing the wild population, or eliminating nuisance animals even if you don't eat them is beneficial in the end... Humans are an apex predator on this planet, we can't ignore mother natures role for us and where we fit into the balance of things, even if it's convenient...

This is an interesting video, on how food marketing has warped societies mentality even further, make sure your friends watch the end and discover what the secret weapon is...

 

[Rosa moschata]

Sooooo - a salad really is a kind of rock formation?

Every person that has addressed the subject has basically said, "leave this person alone." How is that trying to "enlighten" anyone?

"Meat" is the muscles or organs of some type of animal, and sorry, but we ain't scavengers. As I said, it's nice to be able to distance oneself from the death, but everything in the meat department drew breath within the not-so-distant past. Plants are alive, too - anyone who has ever kept a house plant knows that. Life - our life - comes at the price of the death of something else. Some people go so far as to insist that they have a personal acquaintance with anything they eat; if that works for them, fine. I only have a problem with that if they insist that anyone that doesn't kill their own dinner doesn't deserve to eat it (plant as well as animal), because I think making food into a religion is elevating it to an unhealthy status. But that's me, being ridiculous.

Re-read the second response in this thread to see what I mean about "criticizing someone else for believing something you feel is ridiculous."

;-)

Edited

 

[Bunnylady]

Re-read the first two responses in this thread to see what I mean about "criticizing someone else for believing something you feel is ridiculous."

;-)

I see two people that learned at a very early age that those things out there in the woods weren't just pretty to look at, they could stop the growling in your tummy, too . . . .

 

[Mr MKK FARMS]

I would not agitate this person if I could avoid it, but on the other hand, if you are doing everything legally then there really shouldn't be anything to get mad at. Some people just don't understand and never will.

 

[Blooie]

Since my post was one of those first two, I feel compelled to defend my position. I will try hard to do so with courtesy and respect, and would sincerely ask that any responses be presented the same way. I do not believe, nor did I say, that anyone who doesn't follow my way of life is "ridiculous." I do not think that people who don't hunt are ridiculous. I'm not that stupid. I just resent having to defend my position AND theirs at the same time. Frankly, I don't want someone out in the field with a weapon who doesn't truly understand why they are there and how serious a thing it is to hunt for the meat. I just don't understand why I have to accept and respect their position while they are yelling at me for mine.

I may have chosen my opening sentence badly, and while I'll apologize for the wording I won't apologize for the sentiment. It's been my personal experience, as a woman who has been hunting for the past 50+ years, that in general the name calling and insults come from those who don't understand, nor care to try to understand, why I do what I do, which is why I advised the OP that he didn't owe anyone any explanations and that further discussion with someone who was opposed was pointless. It is pointless - of that there is no doubt - even if you are not trying to talk them into hunting for themselves. As a hunter I'm not inclined to persuade a non-hunter to come out with me, but he/she feels perfectly justified in demanding that I give up what I love. So who is really being criticized for doing something that someone else feels is ridiculous? I have been called a "murderer", "cruel", "bloodthirsty", "addicted to violence against the weak", been told that I should be ashamed of myself, been labeled an "exploiter of innocent creatures", had eggs thrown at my hunting truck, and had two tires slashed while I was out in my hunting area - by myself, I might add, with no cell service or way to get help. You simply cannot reason with people like that, and I've found it detrimental and even dangerous to try. My reference to having a "battle of wits with an unarmed opponent" refers simply to trying to explain hunting for the table to someone who has no concept of the benefits to wildlife that hunters provide, and how satisfying it is to provide healthy food to those who depend upon it. As far as me "killing defenseless little creatures" as I've also been accused of doing, let me tell explain how "defenseless" those creatures are. They can see better than I can, hear better than I can, have a better sense of smell than I do, know their areas better than I do, and are faster than I am.

If these folks had ever seen a herd of yarded up deer starving because there is no more available forage due to overpopulation, they might be willing to at least listen. There are more white tailed deer in this nation thanks to regulated hunting than there has been for generations. They've learned to survive and they've multiplied in any area you can name - I can drive to Walmart in Cody, Wyoming and see deer in the parking lot, in people's yards, and even along the approach to the airport. If you think that's an exaggeration I have the photos to prove it. I even took a few pictures of two wild turkeys that were in a parking lot between MacDonald's and a gas station in Sheridan, Wyoming. I see deer, pheasant and antelope carcasses where they have been hit by cars lying by the side of the road, rotting away - all of that meat wasted after the animal suffered and people had occasionally been hurt. But some folks don't want to hear that - they just want to order us to quit hunting, and accuse us of being violent and bloodthirsty, They are indeed unarmed - they don't have the information to make a logical argument so they make hostile, emotional ones. Our hunting dollars are responsible for the increase in wildlife habitat and sanctuaries. They help pay the salaries of the men and women who are out in their trucks regardless of the weather, all to make sure that game is taken legally, responsibly, safely, and ethically. And the vast majority of us who take to the fields for a few weeks each fall take great pride in hunting in a way that guarantees that there will always be a new generation of animals to replace what we harvest.

So yes, it is indeed pointless to get into an argument with someone who is so anti-hunting. Life isn't Bambi in the forest with the evil hoards chasing down Mommy. It's more complex than that, and the meat my dad harvested, along with the produce they grew, sustained our family through some awfully hard times. My husband and I also fed our family that way, and now my grandchildren understand that food isn't a commodity found only at the grocery store, costing money that too many people don't even have. And if, God forbid, the day ever comes when this great nation falls into a financial collapse, my family will be eating healthy food because we are capable of getting it on our own, while others are demanding that we share. I'm not a "prepper", I'm just practical. And suddenly it won't be important to them that that meat was harvested by hunting - it'll smell mighty good.

 

[MeepBeep]

If these folks had ever seen a herd of yarded up deer starving because there is no more available forage due to overpopulation, they might be willing to at least listen.

Sadly no they won't, they simply have made up their minds and nothing will change that in the end... I have participated in deer culling in forest preserves (you think hunting gets a bad name) it's done under the cover of night with no public notice, by a selected group of trusted individuals that can keep their mouths shut... Because no matter what facts you present those against it will literally become terrorist doing anything they can to stop you... You can look at any of the forest preserves in my area, there is very little to no living vegetation growth under 6 feet in any of the forested areas, the deer have eaten anything they can reach and are still starving, that is why they are not walking down neighborhood streets and eating out of people planters and flower pots... The deer we were culling were 2/3 the weight/size of a healthy deer their age, they were not thriving they were barely surviving and that was evident when we did after thaw walk troughs of the area and counted the number of carcasses each spring, some areas were like war zone with a carcasses every hundred feet or so...

 

[Rosa moschata]

It is pointless to argue with someone who has strongly-held beliefs which differ from yours, and neither of you are about to change your positions. I'm not arguing against hunting by any means. I'm merely pointing out that there are people who will hold to opinions that don't seem to have a basis in logic or reality, and before criticizing them for doing so (yes, I'm referring to the "battle of wits" comment), check that you, yourself, don't ALSO have strong emotion-based opinions on other topics that are often criticized as being illogical. If you do, ask yourself how you'd feel if you were characterized as being the "unarmed opponent in a battle of wits" and if someone confronted you with facts that countered your beliefs.

To the OP -- if you really want to educate this person, rather than respond with an argument against what was said, or why it was so incorrect, why not say "OK, let's find out together." Find reputable internet sources of information, such as FDA definitions of the terms ascribed to various meat products. Approach the disagreement from the perspective of ignorance -- "Hmmm, I never heard that before...let's look it up to find out more" and learn together. My point for interjecting is that this isn't just some stranger on the street -- this is a member of your family, and as such, deserves respect despite a difference in opinion.