Well said, Cynthia. I sometimes wonder when common sense, logic, and good animal husbandry became rude and/or tactless.
*IMPORTANT* - How to deal with an Aggressive Rooster
- Thread starter Yazzo
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I agree with you ..maybe cattle wasnt a good reference when comparing to chickens - I was afraid it would be taken out of context...I meant that ONLY in the fact they are a fear based animal..that I'm sure you can appreciate. We, as well, cannot and will not keep a bad bull - kinda different they can kill you. Quite different than a mean rooster, and totally off subject.
I agree, someone new to poultry should be sure if they are getting a rooster they should start out with one they know to be docile...why learn the hard way??? Or risk getting hurt? You dont want to take on the most difficult task right off the bat...I do have to agree with you there. BUT some people who are new, may already be in that position, so why not let them give it a try. Like you said, I agree also, a LOT of people DONT want to waste their time working with their animals. Some do. I AM one of those who spends A LOT of time with mine....horses, cows, chickens, the kids.....(come on someone laugh this thread is getting too serious!) I love them all!
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
I agree with you ..maybe cattle wasnt a good reference when comparing to chickens - I was afraid it would be taken out of context...I meant that ONLY in the fact they are a fear based animal..that I'm sure you can appreciate. We, as well, cannot and will not keep a bad bull - kinda different they can kill you. Quite different than a mean rooster, and totally off subject.
I agree, someone new to poultry should be sure if they are getting a rooster they should start out with one they know to be docile...why learn the hard way??? Or risk getting hurt? You dont want to take on the most difficult task right off the bat...I do have to agree with you there. BUT some people who are new, may already be in that position, so why not let them give it a try. Like you said, I agree also, a LOT of people DONT want to waste their time working with their animals. Some do. I AM one of those who spends A LOT of time with mine....horses, cows, chickens, the kids.....(come on someone laugh this thread is getting too serious!) I love them all!
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
speckledhen: You said: As far as what Dutch's motivation and reasoning were for suddenly becoming aggressive toward me, I can only surmise that it was his change of situation, being taken from his women nightly for a couple weeks, that started his grudge, considering that he was way more than fully mature when this started. Whatever the reason is truly not important--the result is that I ended up with a rooster I could not trust and who was a danger to me and he had to go. He's just lucky that someone else took a chance on him, even if he has no concept of that.
Actually it IS important the reason he did become aggressive....at least for people new to poultry and for me as well, thats why I asked my question. Is to learn. Your situation that went so wrong can help someone else so theirs doesnt end badly. IMO we need to look AT the specifics of what happens rather than throw those details away....those little things are what speaks volumes. Those are the things we can learn the most from when working with animals if we care to listen. I see a lot in your story to learn and take heed from. He did see you as a threat to no fault of your own that you were aware of....but with you posting this story now maybe readers can use this to understand how I was saying a chicken is an animal that behaves on fear and uses that fear as aggression. And how can we incorporate a more natural approach to handling any animal, change our behavior in the way that animal is easy to handle rather than trying to dominate? I think that is basically all Yazzo was wanting to do. Fear=aggression
Actually it IS important the reason he did become aggressive....at least for people new to poultry and for me as well, thats why I asked my question. Is to learn. Your situation that went so wrong can help someone else so theirs doesnt end badly. IMO we need to look AT the specifics of what happens rather than throw those details away....those little things are what speaks volumes. Those are the things we can learn the most from when working with animals if we care to listen. I see a lot in your story to learn and take heed from. He did see you as a threat to no fault of your own that you were aware of....but with you posting this story now maybe readers can use this to understand how I was saying a chicken is an animal that behaves on fear and uses that fear as aggression. And how can we incorporate a more natural approach to handling any animal, change our behavior in the way that animal is easy to handle rather than trying to dominate? I think that is basically all Yazzo was wanting to do. Fear=aggression
Quote:
I agree with you ..maybe cattle wasnt a good reference when comparing to chickens - I was afraid it would be taken out of context...I meant that ONLY in the fact they are a fear based animal..that I'm sure you can appreciate. We, as well, cannot and will not keep a bad bull - kinda different they can kill you. Quite different than a mean rooster, and totally off subject.
I agree, someone new to poultry should be sure if they are getting a rooster they should start out with one they know to be docile...why learn the hard way??? Or risk getting hurt? You dont want to take on the most difficult task right off the bat...I do have to agree with you there. BUT some people who are new, may already be in that position, so why not let them give it a try. Like you said, I agree also, a LOT of people DONT want to waste their time working with their animals. Some do. I AM one of those who spends A LOT of time with mine....horses, cows, chickens, the kids.....(come on someone laugh this thread is getting too serious!) I love them all!
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
I agree with you ..maybe cattle wasnt a good reference when comparing to chickens - I was afraid it would be taken out of context...I meant that ONLY in the fact they are a fear based animal..that I'm sure you can appreciate. We, as well, cannot and will not keep a bad bull - kinda different they can kill you. Quite different than a mean rooster, and totally off subject.
I agree, someone new to poultry should be sure if they are getting a rooster they should start out with one they know to be docile...why learn the hard way??? Or risk getting hurt? You dont want to take on the most difficult task right off the bat...I do have to agree with you there. BUT some people who are new, may already be in that position, so why not let them give it a try. Like you said, I agree also, a LOT of people DONT want to waste their time working with their animals. Some do. I AM one of those who spends A LOT of time with mine....horses, cows, chickens, the kids.....(come on someone laugh this thread is getting too serious!) I love them all!
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
Quote:
who is being rude or tactless? I certainly hope your not referring to me...I'm trying to have a decent convo.....and I'm not being rude OR tactless in any way.
who is being rude or tactless? I certainly hope your not referring to me...I'm trying to have a decent convo.....and I'm not being rude OR tactless in any way.
Fear=aggression, perhaps true in some situations. Environment=aggression, perhaps true in more situations. Genetics=aggression, probably true in most situations. By removing such roosters from the gene pool we can reduce the incidence of human aggressiveness. Gamecocks arre the least human aggressive of any chicken breed. This trait has been stringently selected against because of the inherent danger. Some show strains where "type" is of the essence are among the most human aggressive. Any time we concentrate on one trait and ignore the others we risk the potential of inadvertantly selecting negative traits. This is true of all breeding endeavors not just poultry breeding. Edited to add: rude/tactless was referring to people like me who try to speak common sense. Why would you ascribe it to yourself?
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hmmmm I disagree with that. I think fear and environment override genetics. I think you can take ALL the aggression out of the gene pool and still put them in a bad environment and scare the crap out of them and they will be aggressive! But take away the other two with an animal with that inherit gene and you still have aggression. But there are always two sides of the fence and you can find studies to back up both sides and who will always conflict each other depending on which your reading. I do agree with what you said about concentrating on one trait and ignoring the others and risking the potential of inadvertently selecting negative traits...BUT...this isnt a thread about gentics......we seem to be getting off track.
hmmmm I disagree with that. I think fear and environment override genetics. I think you can take ALL the aggression out of the gene pool and still put them in a bad environment and scare the crap out of them and they will be aggressive! But take away the other two with an animal with that inherit gene and you still have aggression. But there are always two sides of the fence and you can find studies to back up both sides and who will always conflict each other depending on which your reading. I do agree with what you said about concentrating on one trait and ignoring the others and risking the potential of inadvertently selecting negative traits...BUT...this isnt a thread about gentics......we seem to be getting off track.
Quote:
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
I don't think any one of us has ever said a person should not get a rooster. What we have said is cull the bad ones because there are a lot of good ones out there.
What a lot of us aren't sold on is the "rose-colored glasses" attitude that you can cure 99.9% of the mean roosters out there. It's a disservice to new people to act like roosters can think and reason like a human being. They are not humans and don't have the same capabilities as we do. Acting like they do is a bunch of hooey.
I think comparing chickens and cattle is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.....both fruit/critters, but there the similarities end for the most part.
How do you suggest a new person to poultry get a roo that they know they won't have problems with? I don't think it's possible to know for sure what kind of roo you are getting and that is part of the problem. Certain breeds may be more inclined to be tame or mean, but there are no guarentees what will happen with any rooster when you aquire them as chicks or hatch them out. Even buying a supposedly tame rooster from someone is no guarentee that they will remain that way once you get them home.
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
I don't think any one of us has ever said a person should not get a rooster. What we have said is cull the bad ones because there are a lot of good ones out there.
What a lot of us aren't sold on is the "rose-colored glasses" attitude that you can cure 99.9% of the mean roosters out there. It's a disservice to new people to act like roosters can think and reason like a human being. They are not humans and don't have the same capabilities as we do. Acting like they do is a bunch of hooey.
Yazzo -- Well, I guess I let the roo try to attack me. I was pretty surprised and swung a stick at him. One of the times I had a plastic tool box in my hand and he kicked at that. I took off running. I guess that wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Last night I tried to feed him his treat and he fluffed up and tried to get me again. I don't know what to do with him. I guess I keep trying.
Last night I tried to feed him his treat and he fluffed up and tried to get me again. I don't know what to do with him. I guess I keep trying.
Quote:
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
I don't think any one of us has ever said a person should not get a rooster. What we have said is cull the bad ones because there are a lot of good ones out there.
What a lot of us aren't sold on is the "rose-colored glasses" attitude that you can cure 99.9% of the mean roosters out there. It's a disservice to new people to act like roosters can think and reason like a human being. They are not humans and don't have the same capabilities as we do. Acting like they do is a bunch of hooey.
I dont think it was ever stated that they think OR reason like a human being...THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOOEY if it was stated and I missed that....we should see how they think and reason and learn why they behave as they do. THATS how I feel, it makes ANY animal not just a chicken easier to handle. I dont have on rose-colored glasses either just like you dont, I've been around and worked with animals too long for that and I always have my guard up.....I just know that so far in my experience with my animals, and my chickens this technique has worked for me too. ...I'm in agreement tho with this thread that ANY animal can be handled correctly in one way or another by the right person who is willing to find a way.
You are SO right...if a person is not up to trying to work with a rooster....then get rid of it and find you a good one! But like you said there are no guarantees they will remain that way....so its always good to spend time with your birds to let them get to know you so they know you ARENT a threat. just my opinion. Its just that some people dont want to cull one right away...some roosters are just trying those boundries and it is good to know for someone just starting out with poultry that maybe he isnt just a mean rooster....maybe you just need to show him your not a threat....so many roosters get put in the pot because they chest bumped an ankle one time!
Of course there is no guarantee.....common sense there.....but should NO ONE get a rooster?
I don't think any one of us has ever said a person should not get a rooster. What we have said is cull the bad ones because there are a lot of good ones out there.
What a lot of us aren't sold on is the "rose-colored glasses" attitude that you can cure 99.9% of the mean roosters out there. It's a disservice to new people to act like roosters can think and reason like a human being. They are not humans and don't have the same capabilities as we do. Acting like they do is a bunch of hooey.
I dont think it was ever stated that they think OR reason like a human being...THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOOEY if it was stated and I missed that....we should see how they think and reason and learn why they behave as they do. THATS how I feel, it makes ANY animal not just a chicken easier to handle. I dont have on rose-colored glasses either just like you dont, I've been around and worked with animals too long for that and I always have my guard up.....I just know that so far in my experience with my animals, and my chickens this technique has worked for me too. ...I'm in agreement tho with this thread that ANY animal can be handled correctly in one way or another by the right person who is willing to find a way.
You are SO right...if a person is not up to trying to work with a rooster....then get rid of it and find you a good one! But like you said there are no guarantees they will remain that way....so its always good to spend time with your birds to let them get to know you so they know you ARENT a threat. just my opinion. Its just that some people dont want to cull one right away...some roosters are just trying those boundries and it is good to know for someone just starting out with poultry that maybe he isnt just a mean rooster....maybe you just need to show him your not a threat....so many roosters get put in the pot because they chest bumped an ankle one time!
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