Incubator Humidity for French Black Copper Marans Eggs

[valleyhoneybee]

It was mentioned to me by someone with experience hatching French Black Copper Marans eggs in an incubator that FBCM eggs required a slightly higher humidity level do to the thickness of the shell. Any suggestions as to what the best humidity level for FBCM eggs in an incubator?

(I have a hen setting on 10 eggs but only 1 of 20 successfully hatched in my last "under the hen" attempt (the eggs were mailed to me, which could have been the problem). I have another batch of eggs from a different FBCM line and am "out of Broody Hens! LOL! So, this will be my first FBCM incubator hatching attempt.)

Thanks

 

[One Chick Two]

The eggs were between a 5 an 6 on the Marans egg scale (out of 9). They are from very good lines and also have recently imported Marans from France in their blood line. I would ask $20 each as they are very healthy and beautiful! I can not guarantee the sex of these but you can have your pick of 7 out of the 9 that hatched (1 is white and I am keeping that one and the other hurt its toe hatching and I would not sell a chick "with issues").

Congratulations on your little ones! Just wanted to add, that there is no need to put "French" in front of the name ...just BCM. : )

One other thing (which is a pretty important thing... depending on if you plan on breeding BCM in the future.). If you are just wanting BCM for pets or dark egg layers only, this won't make any difference... but, if you plan on ever selling birds, then the appearance of a white chick sport in BCM hatching eggs is worrisome. This points that there is a problem in the genetics. (Unless you purposely ordered a White Marans-unrelated to your chicks- otherwise, a sport being thrown is something to look at.).

Wheaten variety Marans being mixed into BCM is a huge husbandry problem in BCM. A white chick is a sign tells a breeder the flock they came from is not a pure or Wheaten tested strain of BCM. It's either a Wheaten split (1/2 BCM and 1/2 Wheaten variety) or a "Recessive White sport."

Both are derived from BCM being mixed with Wheaten Marans sometime in the past. Pure Marans chicks always have black and white penguin bodies- showing a small amount of white on faces. Also, BCM born with pure black faces (no white spots) should also at least be suspect for split genes. There are effective tests that can be done when they are of breeding age.

If the chick is a sport, I would certainly email the breeder with photos so they are aware of the problem. Don't be surprised if they deny that there is a problem, or blow it off as nothing. We once had a top breeder from an expensive show line sold us hatching eggs that threw a yellow shanked chick (there are no yellow shanked Marans.) and the others had missing or double toes- so none can ever be used in a breeding program. He told me that was the "risk" buyers take when buying shipping eggs! Genetic issues shouldn't be a risk- eggs surviving shipping should be the risk. Husbandry should show careful attention.

If you would like more info on how to test mate your youngsters when of breeding age to sort out the pure ones from the split young, let me know.

I highly recommend going to the Black Copper Discussion group, and to FB, Marans Fanciers group, and Marans Central as there is some great information and top breeders there.

 

[dheltzel]

Mine hatch great with "dry incubation". I try to keep the RH between 20 and 30%. During lockdown I aim for 80% or higher, but it often goes down to 65% during lockdown. All the eggs, including Welsummers, BBS Ameraucanas, Legbars and Barred Hollands get the same treatment, and all hatch well.

I have noticed that the dark eggs (Welsummers too) hatch a day after the light colored (CCL and BH) eggs. No idea why, it had me concerned the first few times, I thought they weren't gonna hatch, now I just try to be more patient.

 

[One Chick Two]

Thank you for the information. I will check out "Maran Central" and I am aware of the other groups you mentioned. I also joined the Marans of America club prior to "acquiring" Marans (I used to be an archaeologist and am a researcher at heart). I am obviously new to Marans and set out to acquire eggs/birds from at least 3 different sources. I have 1 hen that successfully hatched from the first group (group A) and the 9 referenced in this thread are from a second breeder (group b). The breeder for group b recently went to France and imported some new "stock" (I understand there is a concern regarding genetic diversity and thus long term sustainability in America). This particular breeder has an interest in having a separate breeding flock of only white marines in addition to the black marines. I was told there would be a likely hood of a splash. (there is also 1 chick with no "penguin" or white). This group I will keep separate from the other 2 for that reason and will decide if I am interested in white marines as the chick gets older (I understand that they are not recognized). The third group (group c) is currently in my incubator and that breeder properties they are "show quality" and hasn't had splash hatched in this line.

I would be interested in how to test for split genes.

Thank you again for the information and for taking the time to share your knowledge with me.
Melissa

Sounds good Melissa.
Definitely carefully watch the line with the White Marans, and the line with the black chick- as you are. You should definitely assume there is the possibility of Wheaten mixed in these flocks, and test mate for sure later. As an archaeologist and researcher, I know you realize the importance of keeping a breed strain as pure as possible if you plan to do any propagating.

Just so you know, pure Black Copper Marans will NEVER throw a splash... unless, they come from a blue/ black/ splash mating. Black Coppers should ONLY hatch Black Coppers. Breeders often use Black Coppers to darken blues, however, a black from a blue mating is not a true BC. Young from those matings that look like pure Black Coppers should never be used in pure Black Copper matings- they are off in coloring and should only be used in blues breedings.




Very serious breeders try to be diligent about not crossing in split birds into their flock. Split genes creates future generations of genetically mixed birds, with lots of future color problems in feathers and shanks, and inconsistent chicks. Breed untested split birds in, and in no time a flock can have some really serious issues that become locked in.

In a split flock, some young are split with Wheaten Marans (Wheaten Marans is from a different gene base) but, some young will come out pure (1 in 4 will be split for Wheaten, according to odds.). Later, when the birds are mature, if you plan on breeding, you will need to sort out split young with the pure young. After this is done, then, breed only a pure strain to pure strain.

Do not trust the word of breeders- just because accidents can happen. Test all new breeding birds to be used in your breeding program, yourself. Culls can be put in a separate layers-only flock, or, sold as, "brown egg layers" (just make sure to explain specifics to new owners.)

It takes two eWh genes total present to express in chicks. One eWh gene each in split parents. How do you know if an egg laying pullet or breeding cockerel is split for Wheaten?

Usually, there are obvious signs... Black chicks, Mossy/ reddish chicks... Mossy feathers on pullets/ hens, or, white shanks in the males with straw halos. Overcolored copper chest leakage, etc. But, any young known from a split hatch should be "test mated." Some birds that look 100% correct can still carry split genes if they are present. It's the only way to truly weed out the pure Marans from the split Marans.

When of breeding age, put suspected bird with a lighter colored, Wheaten gene based mate, like RIR. Twenty chicks are hatched (Takes about 2-3 months mating time, so I do this to any new birds during any pullets first tiny eggs to get testing over with.) I put males with 2-5 RIR to quicken their testing time.

If any resulting chicks show any coloration (other than black (no white on faces)). They should have white on lower bellies, and with yellow/ black shanks. Here are two correctly correct test-mate chicks. They are part Wheaten (from RIR hens and a Marans male) notice the black faces and yellow/ black shanks.


If even one single chick is different blonde/ copper, etc, then that tested bird is split. Split birds should not be used in a breeding program. This was a failed test result off the first male we purchased. He is now happy as flockmaster in an olive egger flock.



Wheaten males look similar to BCM males (although the hens are light). And testing takes time, effort and perseverance to clean up genetic issues before selling birds...so, then there are new generations with more genetic problems and the pure birds become harder and harder to find- doesn't better the breed. This is why many lines of BCM have Wheaten.

Please take imy 2 cents worth...never assume just because a breeder may be well known, or, winning at shows, etc., that a flock is pure. 5 of 7 lines we tested last year were eWh split. One line of those lines even came from a master breeder, and another was an officer from a club. Another top line threw yellow shanks, with missing toes! (Yellow shanks means something other than Marans was bred in.) 6 of the lines threw comb sprigs or with coronation comb too! Not everyone tests their flocks, but... if every flock tested, BCM would be Wheaten free!

Hopefully I've explained this well enough. Feel free to ask me anytime if you have more in depth questions.

 

[valleyhoneybee]

As a new "hatcher" of French Black Copper Marans I have talked with A LOT of people with FBCM. I had difficulty getting the eggs to hatch at first as well. What i have learned (& please remember I am NEW at FBCM hatching) is the eggs require slightly more humidity to hatch due to a slightly thicker membrane and shell (which, I am told, keeps more bacteria out of the egg than other types of chicken eggs). BUT, a word of caution, don't get too humidity happy or the chick will drown while attempting to hatch.

 

[valleyhoneybee]

One Chick Two, I should also add I this is an interest of mine not a "profession", but since I have 45 acres I have the liberty of keeping roosters and have both the time and room to hatch eggs out while giving the birds a healthy life (no cages and LOTS of room to roam along with 2 Great Pyrenees dogs trained as chicken flock protectors.

 

[rainbowhatchery]

Its the same as other birds, marans are no different in incubation.

 

[kissnpeeps]

Luv it so much I made it my avatar first before I figured how to post it to be thread lol

 

[scflock]

Unfortunately, there are those hucksters, lackadaisical breeders, and breeders unaware of issues (plus some out there who sadly care little about bettering the breed). Marans are relatively a new breed to the US, so they are very vulnerable, especially to some only making a quick buck- passing on any ole' genetics as dark egg laying Marans just as long as the $ holds out. Plus, mistakes and accidents happen as well to confuse things further.

This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I'm not showing, but I don't want to be "that guy"

 

[Kathy48653]

I had 17 Olive Eggers (French Copper Maran and Americauna) in the bator last week. 9 hatched, 3 were duds and the rest died as full term chicks in their shell. After much research, I think I may have drowned them by having my humidity too high during the first 18 days of incubation. I had 50-65 % humidity and I think when they pipped into the air cell prior to hatching they drowned because there was water in there. I am starting a new hatch of OE today and plan to do a dry incubation and jack up the humidity during lockdown.