GambaDawn
Songster
Hi fellow chicken lovers! Over the past 7-8 months some of you here have been full of great advice, entertaining ideas and helpful tips. Thank you all for your experience and knowledge. Hopefully some of you will have the patience for this lengthy, what I hope to be, discussion. I need help please with bullies and integration. Sorry in advance, this is long!
So, I have read many articles, links, and discussions on integration here, that I thought I gad a game plan, but after six weeks or more, I still have quite a problem with my girls and am at my feathered end.
Info first: Currently, 1 barred rock (Sybil), 1 RIR (Mother Clucker), 2 BSL ( Eggna & Buttercup) all now 33 weeks and laying regularly. Then I have, 2 buff Orps (Thelma &Louise) almost 23 weeks and 1 RIR (Reba) and one EE (Frizzle) 18 weeks. The Orps just started laying last week! Yay! So a total of 8 girls.
We want 10 and a roo. So, I got 4 more (above 23 w and 18 w now). Originally I had them in a divided brooder, pics below, which is plenty big, (4x8) as we took advice from here and built one and have it up on a table In the garage. They were so cute
as the little ones would fly over the poultry netting that I was using as a divider, to get to the Orps. It scared me at first as there was a six week difference, but the Orps mothered them, even at their young age, and were very loving to the little ones. So out came the PN and they stayed in the brooder until the littles were 7weeks, then they all went out into an adjoining run next to the big girls.
I read here that it might be a good idea to have them within sight of the older girls but not able to touch, to make integration easier. We then added two little port doors for the littles to escape into their own pen, so when I was brave enough, to let them mingle a bit. (We now know those are too large and in future will make teeny tiny ones lol).
So one side of our set up has an 8 h x 8L x 5 W run with a 5 x 5 x 5 coop attached, as well as the space below the coop accessible for them also. The adjoining run is same size, but no coop attached. There is a large dog house inside for the babies to sleep in and roost.
There is food and water on both sides of course. We will be building a new walk in coop over the next few weeks that will be 6 x 10.
In the meantime, I have have had quite a struggle with my older girls getting along. I have gotten so much help here with that, but still it is an issue. Originally I thought my main problem was my mean Roo, he was the same age as my girls, and just didn’t know how to treat his girls. While he was protective, he was huge, and was too rough with them. He liked my RIR Mother Clucker the most, but she was soon missing a huge patch of feathers at her tail and was also picked on by my BSL’s, and was getting pretty beat up. Once I re-homed him I had hoped that all would stop, but it did not.
We went rounds with one of the BSL being the aggressor towards Sybil and Mother, and I thought things would calm down once they reestablished their pecking order. Two weeks later, Sybil was cowering in the corners of the run constantly and Mother was practically bald (and it’s cold out there). I took BSL Buttercup and put her in timeout in the brooder. Out of sight and sound, as suggested on here. She stayed in the brooder for two weeks. She is now less aggressive and things seemed to be better until I noticed one day, that Mother has her wings actually snipped off! Poor thing is still getting beat up by someone! I can’t tell who At this point. I took Mother out for a few days, put cortisone on her bald spots, vitamins in her water, and she seems to be faring well despite all of the beating.
So as I researched and read here, I decided to try letting them mingle a little at a time, and over the last month (yes, month!), I have almost every day, allowed more time. They had full days, but not nights for a week, all last week.
So Sunday, the littles were 17 weeks and could eat layer feed Nutrena 16% Nature Wise layer pellet) and I do supplement with a separate dish of oyster shell), so I decided that it was time to Go for it! I opened the door between the runs and let them fight it out all day, (checking on them constantly Lol), and hoped by night, the new girls would follow the older ones into the coop. Nope. The big girls went to the coop, the littles went to the dog house. My hubby said, we had to take out the dog house, and force the issue, but I couldn’t yet, just in case things went bad, I wanted there to be a place for my littles. So this whole time, Frizzle my EE, she has not even tried to mingle. She is so scared of the big girls, that she first thing flys up on the high roost in the run and stays away from them. So much so at first I was worried she wasnt eating or drinking that first week at all! She will fly up onto my shoulder or back when I enter the run too, like, MOM PROTECT ME! But I just kept an eye on them throughout the days and let them go into their respective coops at night, until last night. In the afternoon yesterday I put the big girls on the side with the dog house, and the littles on the coop side. I was just hoping on the outside chance, if the sun went down, the littles would naturally go into the coop. So I go out there just after sundown and theres An Orp resting on the ramp to enter the coop, one on the ground, my Reba huddled in a corner and Frizzle roosting on a log we have in there. None went in. We’ve checked for mites, it’s clean and dry and there are two roosts, so plenty of sleeping spots. (Although the roosts are close together and in our new coop we are planning, that will be fixed), but we had a huge rooster and 5 girls before and there was plenty of room.
So I try to encourage them into the coop, and they just run out. Then I figure, maybe let the big girls in (I’m out there in the dark, with a lantern lighting the coop so they can see), and they will run into the coop and then the littles will go?! I open the door between the runs, and the older girls were stressing wanting their coop, so they ran right in! Two went in, and one of my Orps followed, but just stayed in the doorway, so I put the other Orp up there, and then they are both blocking the doorway, not going the rest of the way in. Both older girls are already roosting, and Sybil (an older) is trying to fly over the Orps to get in lol, and squishes in somehow. Meanwhile Frizzle has flown onto my back and Reba will have nothing to do with any of it. (chicken confusion everywhere!). I reached in and put the Orps each up on the lower roost, and they stay. Then I stick Reba in and Sybil pecks at her some so she tries to get out. I’m also trying to get Frizzle off my back lol. I finally get Reba and Frizzle in, and have my hubby lower the door to the coop. My two youngest littles are now crying, and I’m about to die of stress. Holy cow, why is this so hard!?!?!
My hubby is watching them and giving them a little light from the coop window, and of course I can’t help myself and go around, open the egg door to look in, and here comes Frizzle with Reba close behind, running toward me, trying to get away from it all. I calmed her down, she is actually panting, so I am worried for her and her stress level, and shut them in. I figured it best to move away so all was dark and they would have no choice but settle down. Those Two, I am sure, roosted on the edge of the egg boxes last night, furthest from the older girls on the main roosts, and they cried a bit, but it wasn’t long before things quieted down.
So, somehow we got through one night, but in no way do I want a repeat of that shit-show tonight! I know I may have to encourage the youngsters for a couple nights, but is there anything, any-thing at all, that would help make this process easier, and less stressful for all? I was a bit worried they would wake early and harm the two littles this morning, but my hubby opens it all up just before sunrise because of his work schedule, so that was good, and they are back to pecking at the Orps feet, chasing Reba, and Frizzle avoiding all of the orders, at any cost.
My hubby says, just let it happen, so I have been trying, but seeing how one of the older ones has clipped another’s (Mother Cluckers) wings off, I am determined that happens to no one else! I see pecking on the littles from all the others, so it’s difficult to guess which is the worst. My Orps spends so much of the day hiding behind the waterers, in the corner of the run. I just tried my best to help them with a smooth transition and it’s been anything but.
So any suggestions would be appreciated. I also wonder if I should give up with the two youngest for now and try again once we build our new walk in coop we have planned. Ugh
So, I have read many articles, links, and discussions on integration here, that I thought I gad a game plan, but after six weeks or more, I still have quite a problem with my girls and am at my feathered end.
Info first: Currently, 1 barred rock (Sybil), 1 RIR (Mother Clucker), 2 BSL ( Eggna & Buttercup) all now 33 weeks and laying regularly. Then I have, 2 buff Orps (Thelma &Louise) almost 23 weeks and 1 RIR (Reba) and one EE (Frizzle) 18 weeks. The Orps just started laying last week! Yay! So a total of 8 girls.
We want 10 and a roo. So, I got 4 more (above 23 w and 18 w now). Originally I had them in a divided brooder, pics below, which is plenty big, (4x8) as we took advice from here and built one and have it up on a table In the garage. They were so cute
as the little ones would fly over the poultry netting that I was using as a divider, to get to the Orps. It scared me at first as there was a six week difference, but the Orps mothered them, even at their young age, and were very loving to the little ones. So out came the PN and they stayed in the brooder until the littles were 7weeks, then they all went out into an adjoining run next to the big girls.I read here that it might be a good idea to have them within sight of the older girls but not able to touch, to make integration easier. We then added two little port doors for the littles to escape into their own pen, so when I was brave enough, to let them mingle a bit. (We now know those are too large and in future will make teeny tiny ones lol).
So one side of our set up has an 8 h x 8L x 5 W run with a 5 x 5 x 5 coop attached, as well as the space below the coop accessible for them also. The adjoining run is same size, but no coop attached. There is a large dog house inside for the babies to sleep in and roost.
There is food and water on both sides of course. We will be building a new walk in coop over the next few weeks that will be 6 x 10.
In the meantime, I have have had quite a struggle with my older girls getting along. I have gotten so much help here with that, but still it is an issue. Originally I thought my main problem was my mean Roo, he was the same age as my girls, and just didn’t know how to treat his girls. While he was protective, he was huge, and was too rough with them. He liked my RIR Mother Clucker the most, but she was soon missing a huge patch of feathers at her tail and was also picked on by my BSL’s, and was getting pretty beat up. Once I re-homed him I had hoped that all would stop, but it did not.
We went rounds with one of the BSL being the aggressor towards Sybil and Mother, and I thought things would calm down once they reestablished their pecking order. Two weeks later, Sybil was cowering in the corners of the run constantly and Mother was practically bald (and it’s cold out there). I took BSL Buttercup and put her in timeout in the brooder. Out of sight and sound, as suggested on here. She stayed in the brooder for two weeks. She is now less aggressive and things seemed to be better until I noticed one day, that Mother has her wings actually snipped off! Poor thing is still getting beat up by someone! I can’t tell who At this point. I took Mother out for a few days, put cortisone on her bald spots, vitamins in her water, and she seems to be faring well despite all of the beating.
So as I researched and read here, I decided to try letting them mingle a little at a time, and over the last month (yes, month!), I have almost every day, allowed more time. They had full days, but not nights for a week, all last week.
So Sunday, the littles were 17 weeks and could eat layer feed Nutrena 16% Nature Wise layer pellet) and I do supplement with a separate dish of oyster shell), so I decided that it was time to Go for it! I opened the door between the runs and let them fight it out all day, (checking on them constantly Lol), and hoped by night, the new girls would follow the older ones into the coop. Nope. The big girls went to the coop, the littles went to the dog house. My hubby said, we had to take out the dog house, and force the issue, but I couldn’t yet, just in case things went bad, I wanted there to be a place for my littles. So this whole time, Frizzle my EE, she has not even tried to mingle. She is so scared of the big girls, that she first thing flys up on the high roost in the run and stays away from them. So much so at first I was worried she wasnt eating or drinking that first week at all! She will fly up onto my shoulder or back when I enter the run too, like, MOM PROTECT ME! But I just kept an eye on them throughout the days and let them go into their respective coops at night, until last night. In the afternoon yesterday I put the big girls on the side with the dog house, and the littles on the coop side. I was just hoping on the outside chance, if the sun went down, the littles would naturally go into the coop. So I go out there just after sundown and theres An Orp resting on the ramp to enter the coop, one on the ground, my Reba huddled in a corner and Frizzle roosting on a log we have in there. None went in. We’ve checked for mites, it’s clean and dry and there are two roosts, so plenty of sleeping spots. (Although the roosts are close together and in our new coop we are planning, that will be fixed), but we had a huge rooster and 5 girls before and there was plenty of room.
So I try to encourage them into the coop, and they just run out. Then I figure, maybe let the big girls in (I’m out there in the dark, with a lantern lighting the coop so they can see), and they will run into the coop and then the littles will go?! I open the door between the runs, and the older girls were stressing wanting their coop, so they ran right in! Two went in, and one of my Orps followed, but just stayed in the doorway, so I put the other Orp up there, and then they are both blocking the doorway, not going the rest of the way in. Both older girls are already roosting, and Sybil (an older) is trying to fly over the Orps to get in lol, and squishes in somehow. Meanwhile Frizzle has flown onto my back and Reba will have nothing to do with any of it. (chicken confusion everywhere!). I reached in and put the Orps each up on the lower roost, and they stay. Then I stick Reba in and Sybil pecks at her some so she tries to get out. I’m also trying to get Frizzle off my back lol. I finally get Reba and Frizzle in, and have my hubby lower the door to the coop. My two youngest littles are now crying, and I’m about to die of stress. Holy cow, why is this so hard!?!?!
My hubby is watching them and giving them a little light from the coop window, and of course I can’t help myself and go around, open the egg door to look in, and here comes Frizzle with Reba close behind, running toward me, trying to get away from it all. I calmed her down, she is actually panting, so I am worried for her and her stress level, and shut them in. I figured it best to move away so all was dark and they would have no choice but settle down. Those Two, I am sure, roosted on the edge of the egg boxes last night, furthest from the older girls on the main roosts, and they cried a bit, but it wasn’t long before things quieted down.
So, somehow we got through one night, but in no way do I want a repeat of that shit-show tonight! I know I may have to encourage the youngsters for a couple nights, but is there anything, any-thing at all, that would help make this process easier, and less stressful for all? I was a bit worried they would wake early and harm the two littles this morning, but my hubby opens it all up just before sunrise because of his work schedule, so that was good, and they are back to pecking at the Orps feet, chasing Reba, and Frizzle avoiding all of the orders, at any cost.
My hubby says, just let it happen, so I have been trying, but seeing how one of the older ones has clipped another’s (Mother Cluckers) wings off, I am determined that happens to no one else! I see pecking on the littles from all the others, so it’s difficult to guess which is the worst. My Orps spends so much of the day hiding behind the waterers, in the corner of the run. I just tried my best to help them with a smooth transition and it’s been anything but.
So any suggestions would be appreciated. I also wonder if I should give up with the two youngest for now and try again once we build our new walk in coop we have planned. Ugh
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