Is anyone listening?

[ScottnLydia]

I wouldn't put medicated chick starter in the same league with antibiotics. Most of those have only amprolium, which is a thiamine analog, not an antibiotic. Yes, some do have trace amounts of stuff like bacitracin, but not the one I use. I cannot get hold of non-medicated and I feed the stuff with amprolium to both the broodies and the babies.

That said, most folks don't realize that the medicated starter just does not necessarily prevent cocci anyway, especially in very humid, warm climates. I've had to use Corid on chicks who were raised on medicated starter anyway in the past. And I'd say most backyarders won't accept entire batches of chicks dying of coccidiosis, which does often happen if they are left untreated. Yes, you can build a cocci-resistant flock by not treating and allowing the deaths, but you also will have chicks with damaged intestines live but never grow to their full potential. I've seen it happen.

Antibiotics are a different topic altogether, IMO. I absolutely go NUTS when I see people throwing antibiotics at birds who sneeze or "look funny". It's crazy irresponsible. That is what is causing issues, treating birds who should be culled because they are Typhoid Marys.

Thanks so much for setting the record straight, speckledhen. Indeed, Corid IS a coccidiostat and not an antibiotic. There are different feed mills all over the country and in my area, anyway, medicated chick starters all seem to include antibiotics as well. Since I don't believe in treating unless there is something to treat, I start chicks on 'broiler starter/finisher'. It is not medicated. Should any chicks start to show signs of illness, they would be isolated and treated then. So far that hasn't happened, except for 1 chick, but I admit my climate is different and perhaps that helps too.

With regards to the Monsanto Corp, and GMO crops in general, it's like what Dr. Frankensteins assistant should have told him, "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do it !"

~S

 

[ScottnLydia]

The last article I read on Monsanto is that those who they go after have turned the tables. Filing suits that state that their NON -GMO corn and soy is being polluted or contaminated with Monsanto's' GMO's.

Shumways and Baker Creek, I believe may be one and the same. I'm not sure. I do know that in looking at the addresses for orders there are two of them that are exactly the same. I am certain that Baker Creek and another catalog I get are one and the same.

Like everything else I try to do the best I can when it comes to my garden and my chickens. .

I know that Shumways is tied to Jungs and about a half dozen other companies, their catalogs are almost identical. Shumways, though, still offers some of the old farm seed like feed corn, mangel beets, old types of pumpkin, etc. Baker Creek is an heirloom seed vendor offering only non-GMO varieties. They have an AMAZING selection, most of which I had never seen in any other catalog. They appear to collect most of the seed themselves, not just drop-ship them like most other companies. The catalog is like a magazine, beautifully photographed with an amazing number of varieties in each section. No feed corn, though, just dent. Their website is www.rareseeds.com.

I don't know about them having the same ordering address as Shumways, unless you have the address of something like a broker that takes orders for several companies. My catalogs have discreet addresses on the order blanks.

~S

 

[rancher hicks]

In either case, some of the best crops I've had are from seeds I've bought and started my self. What I like is I can get heirloom varieties and try them for myself.

This year some growers are selling heirloom plants and selling them for one to two dollars a plant. I am see more organic growers selling plant too. I don't mind the price because I have a small garden. Also I like to grow a variety of each. Taking a lesson from my ancestors the Irish who only grew only one type of potato resulting in the famine due to blight.

 

[Bunnylady]

I'm sorry, kathy, but I don't see how the fact that that particular formulation of Corid contains corn is in any way relevant. This one doesn't:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/corid-9-6-oral-solution.html

All the stuff you posted is very interesting, but non of it shows any relationship between Corid (Amprolium) and Bacillis thuringiensis.

Rancher, the heirloom varieties are splendid, in their way, but there are some instances where the old way isn't necessarily the most effective. For example, a large part of my garden is infested with root-knot nematodes. If I plant anything that isn't nematode resistant in that area, it will be so badly stunted, it may not bear anything at all. I grow my garden by organic methods (hey, I don't want pesticides in my food either) but the nematodes are still there, as are a number of diseases that are now endemic to this area. My husband likes to grow several varieties of tomato every year, and unfortunately, I still don't know what some of the heirloom varieties taste like, because we never got a mature fruit to taste!

 

[rancher hicks]

Scott did you go to the Sustainable Living fair in Fort Collins? I would so go if it were closer to me.. "sustainablelivingassocitation.org"

We don't get any of these types of events in NY. No one wants to deal with the NE. That's why you rarely read anything about wintertime and snow.

 

[ScottnLydia]

No, I didn't even know about that! I have to check that out, thanks! Seems odd 'cuz my daughter just got her Masters there, of course she had her head in other matters.

~S

 

[mickey328]

We went to the fair yesterday...the company DH and I work for had a booth so we went to help out a little. Boy, do I wish I'd gone both days!!! They had all kinds of discussions and demos and wonderful information. The only thing I got to attend was a talk about raising chickens. It was given by a local farmer/feed store owner and he went through a lot of stuff I didn't know...got some really good ideas for stuff to do. I'm definitely attending next year...for both days!

 

[speckledhen]

Guess what? I cannot afford to buy overpriced organic feeds on a piddly military pension check. I won't even try. Before I do that, I'll turn my flock out to free range and find most of their own natural "organic" feeds in the woods. And, actually, that is my plan again-going back to the basics of one big mixed, free ranging flock.

ETA: that does mean that I will not continue with bantams at all, nor with breeds who do not forage well in our mountain woods.

 

[aoxa]

Guess what? I cannot afford to buy overpriced organic feeds on a piddly military pension check. I won't even try. Before I do that, I'll turn my flock out to free range and find most of their own natural "organic" feeds in the woods. And, actually, that is my plan again-going back to the basics of one big mixed, free ranging flock.

ETA: that does mean that I will not continue with bantams at all, nor with breeds who do not forage well in our mountain woods.

You mean solely on the food they find themselves? Because mine find a good percentage of their own diet growing in the woods behind the barn. My flock does not rely solely on the feed I give them for nutrition. It is a big part yes, but they get so much of it from our gardens. Our bird feed last winter had fallen to the ground and sprouted sunflowers, and the sunflowers are seeding and everyone is devouring the plants. I just love seeing them tilling my garden. My grass has never been greener.

I also don't have the option of unmedicated feed. So even if I wanted it, I couldn't get it. I purchase local feeds. They are not organic. If I wanted organic, I would have to go corporate, and I'd much rather support my local community than some multi-million dollar corporation.

 

[mickey328]

It's always a matter of balance what you'd like to do with what you CAN do. If I could, I'd grow all my own feed for them...but we're restricted by space. If I could, I'd have a whole lot more chickens and have various breeds and mutts, and let them breed and hatch their own...but we are only allowed 6 hens. So, we all have to do what we can given our options and abilities. With what little we have, we're able to provide about 20% of their diet with found, grown or free items. It's not nearly as much as I'd like, but it's what we can do, and IMO every little bit helps.