Isbar thread

[Flowerbh]

Are you breeding chickens who have been vacinated with those that haven't been? Just curious. I read an article about sudden unexplained chick deaths. Let me know and I can tell you more.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Rinda,

Like I mentioned I did have the same problem with the first Isbars I hatched out. Sudden chick death for no apparent reason. But I haven't had the problem when hatching my own eggs. I did send eggs off to someone and they haven't mentioned a problem either.

It will be very interesting to find out what your State vet has to say. Did you end up having to sacrifice a chick for the sample? I wonder if there could be a common denominator in feed, chick or breeding stock. Some nutrient missing that the breed needs. *grasping at straws here*

No I didn't have to kill any, I had one pass on Friday, one Saturday, and one overnight so there was one from today to take in. I am very impressed they've already completed the necropsy. Here's the summary they just e-mailed me about an hour ago:


Body as whole (3/3 chicks): Retained yolk sac.
Lung (2/3 chicks): Discoloration.
Gross Comments (July 1, 2013): The precise cause of death is not readily
apparent based solely on gross necropsy examination. The lack of feed material
in the crop and upper intestinal tract suggests that failure to eat likely contributed
to death in this case. There is evidence of retained yolk sacs; however, there is
no overt evidence of inflammation associated with the retained yolk sacs. It is
unclear if the lung discoloration is real or an artifact of decomposition. Liver
swabs have been submitted to bacteriology (chicks 6/29 and 7/1) to help rule-out
an acute bacterial septicemia. Representative tissues will be examined
microscopically following adequate formalin fixation.
Histopathology and bacteriology are pending.

The necropsy examination commenced at 1:17 PM on July 1, 2013.
Examined are 3 chicks that are presented in individual plastic bags identified as
6/28, 6/29, and 7/1. Each chick has a pink band of the lower left leg. The chick
in the bag identified as 6/28 is a gray male. The chick in the bag identified as
6/29 is a white female. The chick in the bag identified as 7/1 is a black male.
The crops of all 3 chicks are empty. The 3 chicks have small and firm, yet
retained, yolk sacs that vary from yellow to green-black. The coelomic cavities of
all 3 chicks lack overt evidence of inflammation. The lungs of the chick in the
bag identified as 6/29 are mottled red; the lungs of the chick in the bag identified
as 6/28 are diffusely reddened.
No gross lesions are identified in the oral cavity, external surface of the brains,
heart, liver, kidneys, joints, or skeletal muscle of any bird.

So basically no answers yet but they have further cultures, etc.... I really hope for answers!

The only batch that didn't ALL die, I gave daily drops of colloidal silver (it's a natural anti-infective). They made it through the chick stage and I shipped them off to their new home at about 6 weeks. I don't really think it's a viable option to do for every chick in every batch.... but I certainly will if it shows a difference in mortality rate and I don't get any solid answers from OSU.

I did tell them I tried treating several batches for Cocci with no improvement in results. I also treated one or two batches with a general antibiotic again no improvement. I also mentioned that they eat and drink well until about 3 days before death, which explains the empty crops.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Are you breeding chickens who have been vacinated with those that haven't been? Just curious. I read an article about sudden unexplained chick deaths. Let me know and I can tell you more.

No. My breeding stock consists of a rooster hatched from eggs from The Sheriff, and two hens hatched from eggs from Jordan Farms. I also have two pullets from later eggs from The Sheriff. I did lose one or two young ones from those two batches of eggs and sold a few extra roosters, but given that they were hatched eggs and how fragile chicks are in general I wasn't concerned that I lost a few. One of them had severe neurological problems and I had to put her down at about 10 weeks (from Jordan Farms eggs).

ETA: To further explain, I do not vaccinate any of my chickens. So no none of the parents are vaccinated.

 

[Flowerbh]

No. My breeding stock consists of a rooster hatched from eggs from The Sheriff, and two hens hatched from eggs from Jordan Farms. I also have two pullets from later eggs from The Sheriff. I did lose one or two young ones from those two batches of eggs and sold a few extra roosters, but given that they were hatched eggs and how fragile chicks are in general I wasn't concerned that I lost a few. One of them had severe neurological problems and I had to put her down at about 10 weeks (from Jordan Farms eggs).

ETA: To further explain, I do not vaccinate any of my chickens. So no none of the parents are vaccinated.

But, do you know if either The Sheriff's stock or the Jordan's stock (parents) had been vaccinated?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Hm, I would assume Mary (The Sheriff) doesn't but I can ask. I have no idea on Jordan Farms. Do you feel that may be making a difference? As I have two POL pullets from Mary I suppose I could wait a few weeks for them to lay and then see if their chicks have the same problem! That would prove the problem is with the Jordan Farms birds. Unless it is transmittable and he gives it to them, too....

 

[debs_flock]

Are you breeding chickens who have been vacinated with those that haven't been? Just curious. I read an article about sudden unexplained chick deaths. Let me know and I can tell you more.

I don't vaccinate either and my original hatching eggs also came from Mary.

 

[angel8035]

Please keep us updated on further test results. I am watching my two remaining Isbars closely and I am very worried about them. They appear to be eating but when I feel their crops they feel empty. The splash is also VERY light weight and stands under the light often. I am treating them all of Cocci also because my other brooder of older chicks appeared to be coming down with it. I am treating them all to be safe.

I do wonder if since all of the birds come from the same line, there is some inherent genetic problem with the breed. I hope not. I may try the colloidal silver you mentioned if it works. What brand name is it and where did you find it? Thanks.

 

[Flowerbh]

I got 2 Isbar eggs from Richard Jordon. One died when I dropped the egg when I was taking out the turner on day 18! Made me sick! The other one hatched and is now 25 weeks old. Never had a problem. But, that doesn't mean I may not have problems with her chicks. I will find an article that talked about vaccinating some birds and their problems with chicks.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Please keep us updated on further test results. I am watching my two remaining Isbars closely and I am very worried about them. They appear to be eating but when I feel their crops they feel empty. The splash is also VERY light weight and stands under the light often. I am treating them all of Cocci also because my other brooder of older chicks appeared to be coming down with it. I am treating them all to be safe.

I do wonder if since all of the birds come from the same line, there is some inherent genetic problem with the breed. I hope not. I may try the colloidal silver you mentioned if it works. What brand name is it and where did you find it? Thanks.

Will do. I have another baby about 2 weeks old peeping, empty crop, and no eating or drinking. Will probably lose it tonight. I need to get back to doing the CS drops, it's such a pain though. I've used Sovereign Silver brand before and currently I'm using SilverBiotics brand. Both can be purchased from a health food store like Akins. I too wonder about the genetic problems given the small gene pool, but as my rooster and my hens come from two different people in different parts of the country I would think that would not be likely in this case. Plus the lab guy didn't think that was it, if it was genetic they would usually die within days of hatch, not several weeks later.

I got 2 Isbar eggs from Richard Jordon. One died when I dropped the egg when I was taking out the turner on day 18! Made me sick! The other one hatched and is now 25 weeks old. Never had a problem. But, that doesn't mean I may not have problems with her chicks. I will find an article that talked about vaccinating some birds and their problems with chicks.

Sounds great, I will look for it. Just doing all the research I can.

 

[Flowerbh]

OK. I found it. Mind you, it may not have anything to do with your problem...just another brainstorming idea to look at. This comes out of "Hatching and rearing your birds" It comes out of the UK. Looks like most the book was written by Terry Beebe (Practical Poultry).

Anyway, there is a Q & A section in the back of the book. One of the questions was from a man who had 30 chicks in his brooder. He said "...but I have lost 19 chicks of various breeds, mostly Silkies and Faverolles. There appears to be nothing wrong with them as far as I can see but obviously there is. They do not have mite or dirty vents and seemed perfectly healthy one day but dead by the next morning. The chicks are from 2 - 5 weeks old."

The answer goes into some obvious reasons.....infection inside the brooder, overcrowding, and coccidiosis, but then he says, "You also mention two breeds, one of which is the Silkie. This could be another possible cause of your problems as most Silkie chickens are vaccinated against Meraks, a disease from which they are prone to suffer. If they are not vaccinated they will in most cases die and may also infect the other chicks in the brooder. You really have to be careful that you do not mix breeds that are normally vaccinated with breeds that are non-vaccinated as this can lead to some very serious infections and in most cases many fatalities. "

I had this happen to me....a man gave me some mixed breed chicks...mostly silkie mixes and some had Faverolle in them, too. They all seemed fine and I would walk in there and take a picture one minute and then an hour later, that chick would be dead. I lost all but one and my Isbar. They were all between 2 - 4 weeks old when they died.

Maybe this is the case with the Isbars? I don't know....just a thought. May have absolutely nothing to do with Isbars or what happened to your chicks. But, if one breeder is vaccinating and the other is not, and some of that is passed thru to the chicks and then you breed them, might be something to think about? Isbars are fairly new here, so maybe they are like the Silkies and Faverolles?

Anyway, I hope you find out what happened and let us know.