Lethargic, sick chicken. Need advice please

[DanaLH]

Hi all,
So I received the preliminary results from the necropsy... "presumptive Marek's disease with suspect lymphoma affecting liver, spleen and kidneys". The vet said he had to run some tests still which COULD rule out Marek's, but Marek's is what he is suspecting at this point. I am still awaiting final results but that's a pretty terrible first diagnosis. I have read up a ton about Marek's disease and now I am terrified my other two hens are doomed Does anyone have any experience with this disease? It sounds like there is nothing that I can do at this point except hope these two have developed some sort of immunity to the virus. I have no idea if they were vaccinated, it's not something I knew to ask. In my chicken keeping years I have only kept 2-3 hens at a time, and have had a few die unexpectedly, fairly young (3-5 years old), this pullet was by far the youngest though. But now I am wondering if Marek's has been present in my backyard flock this whole time, and just some hens have built up immunity and are able to live longer and others succumb to the illness. What a terrible diagnosis!! I will report back if the final necropsy report says anything different.

 

[ackie]

Coccidiosis may only cause blood in droppings in a couple of the strains of coccidia. There are 9 or more strains that affect chickens.

I did not know that

I have read up a ton about Marek's disease and now I am terrified my other two hens are doomed Does anyone have any experience with this disease?

What you can do to protect your current and future hens is thoroughly clean everything to get the virus out of the areas the chickens are at. If your coop is dirt and they free range, I have no idea how to manage that though (that's my setup). If either of your other birds ARE vaccinated, they wont become sick but they could carry the Mareks virus and spread it to your future birds, unless the new birds are vaccinated. Some people dont vaccinate (myself included) because it actually helps the virus continue to exist... the birds that are vaccinated dont become sick but they are still able to spread the virus. It's pretty cost prohibitive for small scale breeders to vaccinate.

All that said, I had one bird die of Mareks and that was it...no one else died. No one was vaccinated. I've heard horror stories but my flock was fine. So keep your spirits up and take it as it comes

 

[DanaLH]

Thanks @jwehl . Appreciate the words of encouragement! It was pretty disheartening to find out there is very little I can do, especially now that I have all these meds on hand! The run does have a dirt floor, with a portion that is a sand/dust bath area and another portion that is river pebbles (where their water is to keep the water clean) and they free range for about an hour a day. So as you said, cleaning the virus away will be difficult. I will clean the coop nonetheless, and I have read that I could consider adding 2 inches of new dirt to the run.. But I normally add soil from the yard, so for all I know that soil has the virus in it as well. Any thoughts about using bagged soil from Home Depot or other garden center? I have used bagged all-purpose sand and river pebbles, but soil from the garden center seems like it would be too rich/smelly?

 

[ackie]

Having meds on hand is great. You'll appreciate it later.

Check out this article on cleaning with lime.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

If either of your other birds ARE vaccinated, they wont become sick but they could carry the Mareks virus and spread it to your future birds, unless the new birds are vaccinated.

he birds that are vaccinated dont become sick but they are still able to spread the virus.

Birds that are vaccinated can become sick.
The vaccine can help prevent the formation of tumors, it does not prevent infection from the virus.
Sadly, there really is no way to sanitize against a disease like Marek's. Culling birds and managing symptoms are what most people do that have Marek's positive flocks.
@DanaLH I'll tag in @microchick who may be able to give you some tips on moving forward. I'm sorry that you are dealing with this.

Here's some good info about Marek's.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/neoplasms/marek-disease-in-poultry
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

 

[microchick]

Thanks for tagging me, @Wyorp Rock. I'll do a brief reply now and expand it in the morning.

Marek's stays in the soil and in dander trapped in small crevices just about everywhere on your property. You can wash and sanitize all you want to but the cold hard truth is you cannot get away from it. Cleaning your coop is fine but you can walk across grass or dirt that has infected chicken dander on it, have it cling to your shoes or clothes and venture into your newly cleaned coop and reinfect your birds again.

Marek's isn't the end of the road for your flock but there is a new normal you will have to adopt and that normal includes losing birds on occasion to this horrible disease.

When it finally let up on my flock I had lost two thirds of my birds, but then I had a particularly aggressive strain of the disease. For a time I was losing one to two birds a week. Only when I culled the original members of my flock did I see a drop in the number of deaths I've been experiencing.

I have had Ocular Marek's disease, Visceral Marek's Disease and Neurological Marek's Disease, the trifecta of Marek's so I guess you could consider me to be experienced when it comes to dealing with it.

My best advice. Watch your surviving hens. If one of them shows signs of illness, cull her. Marek's disease spreads wildly in sick bird's dander. I know this is hard and heartbreaking but you will survive this. I only bring vaccinated chicks into my flock and so far so good doing that. I am hatching second generation bantams and barnyard crosses with my current flock of almost 50 birds. The bantams are coming from vaccinated OEGB Silver Duck Wing and Black Breasted Reds that I bought vaccinated as chicks from Orschelns after they informed me that their chicks are all vaccinated. I am also starting to cross breed Egyptian Fayoumis, known for their genetic resistance to Marek's disease with my other birds hoping to boost their resistance to the disease.

I lost only three birds this year and only one was suspicious. One had never thrived and the other was a mating injury and had to be culled. For me, that's a big improvement over losing one to two birds a week.

I'll be glad to help answer any questions. Don't worry, you aren't the only person here on BYC who has a history with Marek's disease. There are quite a few of us and we all try to help when we can.

 

[DanaLH]

Thanks for all the support and advice! I have certainly become more attached to my hens since I have been working from home throughout the entire pandemic... I should have known better than to get so attached!! I have read quite a few articles that say pretty much all flocks should be considered "exposed" to Marek's since it's so hard to trace and easily spread. It sounds like one of those "sometimes chickens die" type of situations.. I guess I will have to consider these risks going forward, and whether I should only get vaccinated chicks in the future, as it sounds like my two remaining hens, if they survive, should be considered carriers (and Marek's should be considered present in my backyard).... UGH. And I have to work on getting so attached, my husband will not be happy if/when I tell him he has to be the one to cull any sick birds @microchick the mug on your profile picture is so relatable!! haha

As of now, my two remaining hens seem ok: Rosita (~3 year old RIR, have had her since she was a few days old) and Henrietta (~20 weeks, Buff Orp. Mix, brought her home in August at ~5 weeks old, along with the pullet that died). I don't know if Marek's was already present in my yard/coop, or if the 2 new pullets brought it in, but going forward I will be aware of it, so thanks for all the excellent (albeit terrifying) info. I will also inform the person I purchased the 2 pullets from, just so he is aware in case Marek's came from his flock.

Both remaining hens seem to be ok for now, except Rosita is still sneezing, and I am not sure if it's related or not. She's also pretty thin, keel bone is pretty prominent, and her comb is flopped over, which all sounds very Marek's-like. But, this has been the case since she first got sick back in August and went through a round of antibiotics and had anti-parasitic meds. She's otherwise energetic, a little feisty (always has been), eats, drinks, laying eggs daily. Henrietta is energetic, eating, drinking, etc (not laying yet) and seems to be putting weight on. I recall noticing that the hen that died was very light/thin but they were still growing so I wasn't sure how big she should be yet. Really hope these two are able to fight this virus and survive!

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry that the preliminary diagnosis is Mareks. I recommend the vaccine to chicks from the hatcheries. If they can be protected from any contact with dander or feather dust from your chickens for at least 2 full weeks, they can develop immunity. Some may still get Mareks eventually, but it gives them a chance. Many people tend to breed the chickens in their flocks who do not get symptoms of Mareks. There are a lot of threads here to read if you Google “Marek disease Backyard Chickens.”

 

[microchick]

@DanaLH I understand. I've had to hand my .22 to my husband on occasion and ask him to put a favorite bird down for me as I was crying so hard I couldn't see to safely do the job that needed to be done.

After a while, sadly enough, you come to accept the fact that having Marek's means you are occasionally going to lose birds. I try not to bond too close with them but a few manage to brake through my armor and leave foot prints on my heart.

Don't give up is all I can say. I keep close to 50 birds just because I do expect to have surges in the disease that will kill some of my birds.

If you have any questions you can always PM me. I'll be glad to help answer and offer support any way I can.