LGD breed discussion.

[Le Canard de Barbarie]

Quote:
Here is the table:

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/lgd-l/usda588.htm

 

[mekasmom]

Those sable GSDs are beautiful.

My only comment is that Anatolians are NOT people friendly like pyrs are to strangers. If a human visitor/stranger comes onto the property a pyr may bark, but will approach with a wagging tail. St. Bernards also seem to be very human friendly. But the two Anatolians we have had over the years are not friendly to strangers/ visitors. I wouldn't suggest them unless you are very secluded, and don't have visitors on a regular basis. If you have children whose friends come and go a lot an Anatolian would probably not be a good choice to keep as your LGD. Pyrs would be a better choice.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Here is the table:

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/lgd-l/usda588

.htm

Interesting numbers there.
I noticed the Maremma was MOST likely to actually stay with the sheep.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

My only comment is that Anatolians are NOT people friendly like pyrs are to strangers

Anatolians do seem to have a reputation of being more agressive.

All dogs are individuals though. How they accept strangers is often determined more by how they are raised than by genetics alone. And even if all are raised the same, some will be more defensive.

All of mine were treated identically as pups, but one is extremely friendly towards stangers, one refuses to let strangers touch him, and 2 will accept them IF I or my wife are there,
If we are NOT there, 3 of the 4 "might" bite someone. The fourth might too, but I'd be more surprised if she did

I really cant say, because they are never allowed to run outside the pastures, and so far no one has been willing to go in to find out!​

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Seems like the goat breeder down the street needs to switch from Pyrs and Pyr/Maremma to Anatolians. Poor gal, had her two best(Champion) bucks stolen right from her backyard. Someone had to climb two different fences, pass SEVEN(7!!!!) fully grown Great Pyrenees, to get in AND back out with two Nigerian Dwarf champion bucks.

Strange though, because if they are stolen champions, obviously someone who knew their full worth would not have their paperwork. I can't help but think that someone stole them to be eaten, and just happened to grab her two most valuable bucks.

The irony was that a few weeks before when I first came to her house, she explained how some LGDs are so protective that they have to be sedated for strangers(vets) to work with their flock. Apparently, not hers.

Does anyone have personal experience with Anatolians? I understand they are reported to have more people aggression issues, but how are they with their owner's family and people that frequent the farm(the vet)?

Do many folks have problems with two legged predators? I know that satellite fields are more likely to experience theft of this kind. Just trying to cover all the bases.

If you have a pasture of mixed livestock, for example, a pasture containing cows, goats, sheep, and maybe even freerange chickens; will the dogs specifically stay with the animal they were raised with, or will they guard the animals in general. I know I'm being broad. For discussion's sake, a huge open pasture with a small herd/flock of each roaming about and 2-3 LGDs in the mix. How would they most likely act? Just an educated estimate.

On a side note: Being a GSD fan through and through, I will have a couple of GSDs. But being velcro dogs(anyone who has owned a well bred one knows WHY they have this nickname), I don't see them hanging out in the field with the livestock. The GSDs will most likely be my pets(maybe herders on the side) where as I was researching a dog to leave in the field with the livestock.

Also, does anyone own Guardians AND herders? I imagine that even if the dogs are familiar/friendly with each other, you would have to remove the guardian in order to work the stock with the herder.

How are Maremmas with other dogs? I noticed on that chart that GPs have the least aggression towards dogs, that kind of worries me. Because anyone with livestock knows that feral dogs are some of the worst pests/predators. The chart doesn't specify, if it is within the pack that is guarding the animals(if you have 2-3 guarding the same flock) or with dogs in general. Because honestly, in respects to feral dogs, I want my guardians aggressive. Because there is little difference between a hungry coyote and a hungry/bored domestic dog.

How many dogs can be kept in the same enclosure? I would imagine too many dogs in the same pasture, and they would form a pack mentality and simply forget the sheep. Birds of a feather, flock together. Or is this not the case, no matter the amount of guardians you have? (I know with donkeys, more than 2-3 the donkeys band together and only protect the sheep if the area is small enough, because they no longer view the sheep as their 'herd'. But will protect if the area is small enough to make them feel as though any predator in search of sheep is also a danger to their herd of fellow donkeys).

Oh! One more little question. Male or female guardian? Obviously there are pros and cons to each.

 

[ChickenToes]

Okay, obviously, if someone wants a LGD, they go out and buy a dog that has been specifically bred for the job. But I have to wonder about using a different breed of dog as an LGD. I know someone else mentioned a Corgi.

Oddly enough, my Bloodhound is an excellent LGD. Every dog is different and you could probably go through 100 Bloodhounds before finding another one that acts like mine, but bear with me. She's 1.5 years old, and has been raised around the ducks and chickens since day 1. She goes into the duck run with us, she even goes into the coop, without having to be on a leash. She could care less about the ducks, she's too busy sniffing everything else. But Lord have mercy can that girl raise a holler. She bays whenever she sees a person, animal, or even a vehicle driving slowly past the house. Nothing gets past her. Of course, using her to herd would be a lost cause. The ducks would be in the woods and she would be sniffing something in the yard.

So basically I am wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this - a non-LGD breed that acts as a great LGD.

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Quote:
Yes, many people have this experience. It is common for many dogs to be territorial over their 'space'. The difference between this and an LGD breed, is that true LGDs were bred to be protective over the 'animals' and not the 'space'. Does that make sense? Our pet dogs guard the house and yard and alert us to anything out of place, and even though they are good with the livestock, they could quite frankly care less about the livestock. They don't throw a fit about the fox in the yard because the fox is messing with the chickens, they are throwing a fit becuase the fox is in their "space".

Many LGD breeds were created in a nomadic environment. So they bred for a dog that would stay and protect the flock, even though the flock was moved from place to place. It's part of how dogs work. They are naturally territorial animals and many breeds were bred to gaurd, but they were bred to gaurd 'home', their 'space', their 'territory'. Few breeds have been bred to actually protect other livestock, it's a whole different ball game.

For example, if I had two flocks of sheep, one guarded by a non-LGD(say a German Shepherd) and the other guarded by a true LGD. Both dogs would guard the boundaries of their territory, the pasture. However, put both flocks in the scenario where a predator has harrassed the sheep enough to get them out of the dog's "territory"(the pasture), the GSD would still be protecting the property; while in theory, the true LGD would stay with the flock, even if it meant leaving their usual space. Make sense?

 

[Le Canard de Barbarie]

Here is an interesting story about using Great Pyrenees dogs to guard agricultural workers against bears in Canada.

http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/livestock-guardian-dogs.html

 

[cmjust0]

We have a Sarplaninac named Ivan.

Here's the wikipedia page ...relatively good info.

From what I've seen, the Sarplaninac tends more toward the Anatolian-type personality. With strangers, he's wary at best. Personally, we like that. We live way out, and we don't have a lot of visitors...and NOBODY sneaks up on us, ever.

Ivan's different from a Pyr in that he's not bonded to his herd, nor does he necessarily travel with them unless he wants the company. If he picks up on a threat and starts barking really angrily, the goats go on alert and it's not uncommon to see them move just behind him and herd up closely together.. I've seen him get really worried about something outside the gate and actually turn and break bad with the goats...not to hurt them, but to chase them into the barn so he doesn't have to stand between a threat and a big herd of prey animals. He's very self-serving that way

but that's how it works. He protects himself...everything around him is protected more or less incidentally, just because there's a gigantic fear-aggressive dog on the premises.

When he's relaxed, he's a gigantic goofball and we love him dearly. He doe his job well, though.

 

[cmjust0]

Also wanted to say...as for Pyrs being less stranger aggressive, my experience says that's very true.

In fact, a friend of mine had a working Pyr LGD stolen, along with her new puppies. Yeah, you read that right...somebody came and loaded up a GUARD DOG and ALL HER PUPPIES and drove away. Not only is that a tragic occurance, but......well, to me, it's actually just a teeny bit pathetic.

That was the last guard dog they owned.. Since then, they've had several kids stolen right out of their barn.. That's why I like a dog that hears and sees all and is very wary and noisy toward strangers. Nobody in their right mind would try to walk past our LGD to steal goats, let alone try to steal HIM..

Ain't.
Gonna.
Happen.