LOS ANGELES county CA under bird quarantine :(

[BlueBaby]

The hatcheries are forbidden to sell any chicks that would travel through LAX, BabyBlue. That is to say they can't replace any poultry lost in the quarantine areas. At least not until this is all over and that would be, as I understand it, 4 months after the last reported case.

As for the fact that the whole campaign is targeted at saving commercial operations, that only makes sense as they are the ones supplying meat and eggs to the population of CA and they are the ones already practicing biosecurity while the largest threat comes from people transporting birds around the state and between states. That may not be convenient to us but it only makes sense.

I don't see Jones' personal business changing the dynamics of who can supply what Californians need in any way.

You and I and the folks here on BYC, Animalfisherwoman, may not be endangering commercial flocks with the private flocks we love and care for to the best of our ability. But other small flock owners like people fighting chickens and people listening to Kerri Hand's admonition to hide their birds and remove their birds ARE. In that respect, the SOB folks are putting us in greater danger of more aggressive targeting by CDFA and potentially greater restrictions on our right to have our birds.

It's the disease we need to be fighting. Not one another.

Well, hopefully this will get straightened out for all of you over there. I know that there will be many that will be missing those fresh layed egg's. As far as you saying that it's the disease that need's to be fought, and not each other, there sure has seemed to be a lot of that going on these day's in many thing's.

 

[BlueBaby]

As Animalfisherwoman says, NO movement of birds or eggs outside of or within the quarantine area with a penalty of up to $1K per item per violation. Could get pricey!!!

I'm glad that I already received my dozen silkie hatching egg's from over there right before this happened over there then. Too bad only one hatched out.

 

[Aunt Angus]

I watched the whole video. Hand seems like a scared, confused, angry person. She acts like a cornered animal, striking out at whomever she feels is responsible. I am not judgmental, so I refuse to assign her a label. I am analyzing her behavior in the video. That's what her behavior reminds me of: a scared animal. Scared animals can't always differentiate between friend and foe. I also read both the SOB lawsuit and the AVMA guidelines. Some of what is in the video does seem to contradict the guidelines.

I do not see these as separate sides to the issue. Her actions, the CDFA's actions, Jones's actions, the media's actions, all of it, are parts of the same machine.

 

[BreanneRN]

There are always people who come on here far into the thread, don't read any of it then pass judgement based on the little they know. Annette Jones never addressed the VND problem in a way designed to eliminate it and continues not to do so, while hiding her lack of action behind a protocol that she delayed implementing (VND has been a problem for over a year, yet there was a giant public chicken auction allowed in December 2018? No control over cock-fighting because "that is an ethnic issue"?) while she "waited for funding". After receiving it, a full year after the disease is discovered, she sent unskilled, poorly trained (2 days?), sadists out to dispatch backyard pet chickens, workers who appeared to know little about humane euthanasia, bio-hazard techniques, and additionally with very poor social skills and an attitude of "could care less". Regardless of what is going on with Kerri Hand, no one who viewed that video could watch it and conclude that anything to do with that operation would contribute in anyway to the end of VND or this quarantine. Regardless of how long this quarantine goes on, as long as VND is endemic in Mexico (and we can't control our borders), there will always be another. We can't change what has happened this time, all we can do is fight for a better next time. More prompt action on the part of the CDFA, properly prepared and trained personnel to interact with the community and implement the protocol, prompt action towards those most responsible for the problem (chicken fighting rings), and proper notification of members of the community. You cannot say that "time is of the essence" and that is why these untrained people were loosed on the citizenry when you have sat on your hands for over a year. Meanwhile applying for a "grant" to pay for a "livestock guardian dog" for your personal farm? Hate to say it, but Sacramento is a swampland...

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

I'm sorry to butt in, but as I read this I couldn't help but think that this is being done to help the hatcheries to be able to sell more?

IMO this whole debacle is for one thing, and one thing only - protecting commercial interests. Two points:

1 - Commercial operations' primary goal is profit, so they generally favor high production over robust health. So is it any wonder that vNCD mortality would be high in those populations? I would love to see the data that show where the really high mortalities are. I seriously doubt it is among backyard flocks of healthy chickens. So I'm wondering if the "v" in vNCD is due more to certain bird populations rather than to it's actual virulence to all chickens.

2 - US chicken exports are big business. Some countries won't accept NCD-positive chicken products, So going in and wiping out a bunch of chickens gives bureaucrats the basis to claim NCD has been wiped out. They have absolutely no data to support that claim, because they don't test every bird, but their mass slaughters let them officially make that claim so that business interests aren't disrupted.

The humane and sensible approach would be to let the poultry population develop immunity. But that would be too costly to business. So instead they do this scorched-earth thing that guarantees any birds with NCD immunity in affected areas are destroyed. It's really stupid and counterproductive IMO, but that's how government bureaucracies work.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

IMO this whole debacle is for one thing, and one thing only - protecting commercial interests. Two points:

1 - Commercial operations' primary goal is profit, so they generally favor high production over robust health. So is it any wonder that vNCD mortality would be high in those populations? I would love to see the data that show where the really high mortalities are. I seriously doubt it is among backyard flocks of healthy chickens. So I'm wondering if the "v" in vNCD is due more to certain bird populations rather than to it's actual virulence to all chickens.

2 - US chicken exports are big business. Some countries won't accept NCD-positive chicken products, So going in and wiping out a bunch of chickens gives bureaucrats the basis to claim NCD has been wiped out. They have absolutely no data to support that claim, because they don't test every bird, but their mass slaughters let them officially make that claim so that business interests aren't disrupted.

The humane and sensible approach would be to let the poultry population develop immunity. But that would be too costly to business. So instead they do this scorched-earth thing that guarantees any birds with NCD immunity in affected areas are destroyed. It's really stupid and counterproductive IMO, but that's how government bureaucracies work.

Backyard noncommercial egglayers--i.e. the flocks that most people on here and on SOB have--account for less than 2 percent of detected prems from the 12/18 USDA analysis itself. Flocks less than 20 aren't even a statistical risk according to that same analysis. Dominant hen-flocks less than 8? even less risk. Fighting rooster/fighting rooster breeds, over 95 percent of the detected prems, especially >100. There's no shortage of those in the IE. Yes they are affected by the same constitutional issues as backyard egglayers, and from what I see, they are hiding behind the even lower hanging fruit of tiny egglaying flocks owned by families with special-needs elderly or children.

 

[BreanneRN]

IMO this whole debacle is for one thing, and one thing only - protecting commercial interests. Two points:

1 - Commercial operations' primary goal is profit, so they generally favor high production over robust health. So is it any wonder that vNCD mortality would be high in those populations? I would love to see the data that show where the really high mortalities are. I seriously doubt it is among backyard flocks of healthy chickens. So I'm wondering if the "v" in vNCD is due more to certain bird populations rather than to it's actual virulence to all chickens.

2 - US chicken exports are big business. Some countries won't accept NCD-positive chicken products, So going in and wiping out a bunch of chickens gives bureaucrats the basis to claim NCD has been wiped out. They have absolutely no data to support that claim, because they don't test every bird, but their mass slaughters let them officially make that claim so that business interests aren't disrupted.

The humane and sensible approach would be to let the poultry population develop immunity. But that would be too costly to business. So instead they do this scorched-earth thing that guarantees any birds with NCD immunity in affected areas are destroyed. It's really stupid and counterproductive IMO, but that's how government bureaucracies work.

Well, the whole situation is kind of a conundrum, as far as immunity and vaccinations, as both will cause a bird to test positive for the disease, which is why the reluctance to use the vaccine, as then, your bird will be considered positive for the disease and then trigger the decimation of your whole commercial chicken enterprise. Once vaccinated, the only way to know if your bird has the disease is if it sickens and dies within 2 or 3 days. But to the CDFA and the state, your bird has the disease, and it and all your birds are destroyed before anyone even knows if they were sick or just immune. I don't believe many live chickens are exported from the US, only meat, which is not really a risk for spreading the disease. Some countries are picky (Japan notoriously), but most exporting is done by large companies with multi-state presence and are not effected because they are able to just fill international orders with product from another state, such as Texas. Local businesses are the most effected by this, and there are many in those quarantined areas. I think most must have had plenty of time (in a year) to replace their commercial birds, since it only takes 6 months to raise a chicken to point of lay. Still, they will be restricted from sales out of the quarantined area, which would definitely effect their income and business. I agree that they are part of the problem. Since commercial facilities housing birds are closed to outside traffic and their birds are all inside and still get sick, it just about has to be their own employees who have brought it in, IMO. Why? Most likely because those employees have backyard flocks and just might be engaging in cockfighting...

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

I don't believe many live chickens are exported from the US, only meat, which is not really a risk for spreading the disease.

Oh. I thought NCD-positive meat was non-exportable.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

I'm glad that I already received my dozen silkie hatching egg's from over there right before this happened over there then. Too bad only one hatched out.

There was already a case in which CA2018 (the current vnd strain) got out and infected a flock near Flagstaff, as well as one in Utah, as well as one in Norcal. All predate Kerri Hand's and her group's involvement and were fighting rooster people who don't care about fines or laws. Again, I disagree strongly that Hand is exacerbating this situation by simply bringing awareness. No one in any of those videos is forcibly impeding workers. It is on them and their boss Annette Jones to have done things correctly and to do things correctly and have their priorities in the correct order based on what USDA/CDFA data itself says.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

Once vaccinated, the only way to know if your bird has the disease is if it sickens and dies within 2 or 3 days. But to the CDFA and the state, your bird has the disease, and it and all your birds are destroyed before anyone even knows if they were sick or just immune.

This is a real problem when they equate antibodies with disease. They did that with AIDS, also, even though many HIV-positive people never got sick.