Marans - SOP discussion thread

[maryhysong]

Maryhysong..... I hope it is OK to use your birds for a question. If not - pm me and I will delete my question....

BUMS.... I want to talk about BUMS.....

I have noticed with my hens (all breeds) that when they have a bum like the first hen, they end up with egg laying issues.
Over time, they develop the saggy diaper look and end up egg impacted or lay double yolkers, or something else..

The second hen has a nice looking bum, that does not indicate any laying issues to me.

Am I crazy?

What causes the differences in the Bums?

Do they just look different due to the tightness of the fluff or is there really a structure difference in these two bums?

Just fine by me Lisa. I post birds to get feed back and for educational purposes, so chat away. In her defense will say that green 97 does seem to still be molting while red 59 seems to be done and coming back into lay. I will try and get some pics from the back this weekend and also pick them up and give them the Hogan test. (I've done that before but didn't write it down and don't remember; shame on me) There is a good possibility that there is a difference in structure tho.

And thanks everyone for the comments. Much appreciated.

 

[Wynette]

Folks, the Marans Conformation sketch has been updated; it was redone by an artist under the direction of an APA judge, and has been approved by the club responsible for submitting the SOP for the breed. It has not been changed in any way, just more detail added, and some color. I thought I'd share it here for y'all:

 

[Wynette]

OK, here are a couple of really ugly pullets. Will be one year in Dec. I figure if I show these maybe it will help someone else to know what their birds shouldn't look like.

band; green97 Related to the TX boy I showed before, way to dark, just a few flecks of copper on the neck, ugly comb, black ears, dark eye, black beak. A little small, could have a rounder chest but not too bad. I think her tail angle is OK. Fully feathered down the outside toe. Not the best time to take a pic she's still molting. Lays about a 3 with some speckles.

This pullet below looks like she may have a wing issue, as DMRippy points out, but it could be that she's in molt & about to lose that primary (?) However, the one thing I would mention on this female is that her topline (back) angle is actually quite good. That seems to be a tough one to breed in. It's flat, with a very slight incline down from base of neck to base of tail - it's not a "U" as we often see.


Red 65 is a cull. Normally holds her tail straight up 90 degrees. When she does that she looks like a V. Very pinched in the tail, very front heavy. She does have some copper, but still a dark eye, black ear, black beak. And clean legs. Going to swim with dumplings soon. She is also the smallest of them all. Related to the flaming orange boys I posted last spring on the BCM thread. As far as I can tell I don't think she has ever laid an egg.

mmm...this pullet, I'm in total agreement, not a whole lot to use here. You've made a good assessment of her.


Red 59 is possibly the best of the bunch, she is still a little too dark, black ear, beak, her eye is dark but not as bad as the others.. A little narrow at the hip but not too bad. She has some small feather stubs down the outside of the shank but no real feathering. I think her tail angle may be a little high. I think she might be laying a solid #4 egg. (I might get another pen finished this weekend so I can separate her and know for sure)

Now this gal, this one has potential, I think. Although her topline is lacking, her underline is really nice. she also have exceptional overall balance. Eye color is fine, not too dark. If she is the best you have, I would try her - especially if she is your darkest layer. Her topline does appear to be "U" shaped which we don't want, BUT - it's due to her tail angle being high, I think. If you visualize her tail angle coming down, you can see how her back would have a better shape.


So tell me what I've missed on these?

ETA, math brought up a good question, mentioning the amount of heavy fluff in some of these birds. They should be more tightly feathered, overall. Visualize the feathers of a nice quality Plymouth Rock - that's about where we want the Marans to be, as far as tightness.

 

[math ace]

also pick them up and give them the Hogan test. (I've done that before but didn't write it down and don't remember; shame on me)

What is the Hogan test?

 

[math ace]

I am a little confused with the updated sketch.. The back of the cock still looks like is has a slightly downward slope... I thought it was discussed that it should have a slight upward slope towards the tail.

 

[gilavina]

I am a little confused with the updated sketch.. The back of the cock still looks like is has a slightly downward slope... I thought it was discussed that it should have a slight upward slope towards the tail.

I've always understood that the back should slope slightly downward towards the tail. Haven't heard anything about an upward slope. Would this discussion have happened when I was away? And was there reasoning given for the change?

 

[Wynette]

The Hogan Test is the measurement of width betweent he pelvic bones...I think. Looking for wide width between the legs. His book, The Call of the Hen, can be found here and is an excellent read: https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=DiJDAAAAIAAJ

The topline (back) should run downhill from the base of the neck to the base of the tail....or UPHILL from the base of the tail to the base of the neck.

- ETA, again, the conformation sketch has not changed at all as far as conformation points - it has only been updated so it's a more professionally drawn diagram, and there has been more details added, as well as a bit of color to pretty it up a bit.

 

[gilavina]

The Hogan Test is the measurement of width betweent he pelvic bones...I think. Looking for wide width between the legs. His book, The Call of the Hen, can be found here and is an excellent read: https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=DiJDAAAAIAAJ

The topline (back) should run downhill from the base of the neck to the base of the tail....or UPHILL from the base of the tail to the base of the neck.

- ETA, again, the conformation sketch has not changed at all as far as conformation points - it has only been updated so it's a more professionally drawn diagram, and there has been more details added, as well as a bit of color to pretty it up a bit.

ok good, I would hate to lose all the progress I've made on the angle of the slope in my stock.

 

[Wynette]

ok good, I would hate to lose all the progress I've made on the angle of the slope in my stock.

It's a tough one to be sure. Glad you're seeing great progress in that area!

 

[gilavina]

It's a tough one to be sure. Glad you're seeing great progress in that area!

its funny, seems no matter how much good progress one makes on a certain point, there are always piles more waiting to be worked on haha